calibre792x57.y Posted 27 November , 2010 Share Posted 27 November , 2010 I agree, but one point to be considered in relation to condition, is that millions of G98s and their bayonets were destroyed in the immediate post-War years under the auspice of the Allied Commission supervising enforcement of the Armistice terms; others went to Turkey during the closing months of the War. Hence the vast majority of regular (not all-steel) bayonets and rifles now found within the U.K. were genuine battlefield souvenirs. Many of still exhibit their battle scars. No War Surplus here! - SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmad Posted 29 November , 2010 Share Posted 29 November , 2010 hi all what price do these Bayonets go for? I would be interested in aquiring an example but have found all sort of prices on the net and am wondering what would a realistic price be cheers ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 29 November , 2010 Share Posted 29 November , 2010 Hi John, might take just a drop of oil ..... and a rub with a little wire wool ..... Cheers, S>S That's a good idea! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 29 November , 2010 Author Share Posted 29 November , 2010 hi all what price do these Bayonets go for? I would be interested in aquiring an example but have found all sort of prices on the net and am wondering what would a realistic price be cheers ken The major determining factors of prices found on the net are the usual condition, condition, condition and then any special points or scarcity value. This is always then qualified by exactly who is wanting the particular item and how badly they need it. This can have a tremendous effect on values and sometimes drives the prices received upwards by many multiples, far beyond the expected measure of their worth. One thing I have noticed with these particular models is a level of under-appreciation. In comparison with other German bayonets from the period I believe these remain a little "unloved".! This can work to your advantage as they can then be acquired without too much difficulty. I must admit I have not always been a "believer" or true admirer of their style, but am now slowly starting to gain an appreciation of the quality and workmanship that went into them. Hence my initial question - "does anyone like the look of these".! So to answer the question, the price will always depend on what condition you want your example to be in. But I would expect you to pay something in the range of $100US - $150US for something in good presentable condition. Finding the leather scabbards in good usable condition is always going to be a problem, and that will push the price higher or lower in the range depending on the scabbard. Then you have the scarcer types that will be more sought after again, and the ersatz metal scabbards which will also be worth more. Sometimes you can be lucky enough to pick up the rarer stuff for the same price as the common varieties, simply because they have not been properly identified. There is a fancy one on ebay at the moment which is at the very top end of the scale - I'm pretty sure its been identified.! Current price $600US ....see HERE Thats a very good example of what I have been saying above. As usual, condition is everything, and rarity ..... but that is over 5X what I paid for my S98 aA shown in the OP. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 2 December , 2010 Author Share Posted 2 December , 2010 There is a fancy one on ebay at the moment which is at the very top end of the scale - I'm pretty sure its been identified.! Current price $600US ....see HERE Thats a very good example of what I have been saying above. As usual, condition is everything, and rarity ..... but that is over 5X what I paid for my S98 aA shown in the OP. Cheers, S>S Just as an update, that example on ebay that I linked above just finished ..... final price ended up being $1,100USD.!!! WOW.! Upon taking a closer look this one was not actually a "quillback" after all, but the much rarer sawback version of the S98, issued to the NCO's. (see again HERE ) They were made in the exact same style and dimensions as the other S98's but without the rounded quill, which had to give way to allow the sawback to be cut in. This one also came together with the scarce metal ersatz scabbard, so the set turned out to be quite a rare bird indeed. I'm still glad I grabbed my aA example when I did.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 10 December , 2010 Author Share Posted 10 December , 2010 Here is another one of the S.98 bayonets that I snapped up off ebay last night. Was quite fortunate to be able to pick it up at the reserve price of $65USD. Its not in the most brilliant condition and will need a good clean up but considering the price I thought it was quite good value and I can't complain. This one also comes with a few extra points of interest which help it stand out from the crowd just that little bit more. It is the more common S.98 nA version with the two-piece timber grips and the metal plate inserted just behind the crossguard. This particular example was issued in 1914 which I believe is the last year that these models were actually manufactured. Can anyone add any further info regarding that.? Also this one is marked with Bavarian acceptance stamps - the crown over the script letter L being the royal cypher of Ludwig - which is not as commonly seen as the ubiquitous crown W mark that defines the Prussian issue equipment. Does anyone know of any information concerning the various percentages of the overall equipment that was issued by each of the individual Imperial German states.? So what would be the rough breakdown of equipment and bayonets issued by each of the states of Prussia, Bavaria, Saxony and Wurttemberg during the War.? Another interesting thing with these is that many of them are found sharpened, which to me really defies logic as they are obviously a stabbing and thrusting style of weapon. A sharp edge along the bottom side of the blade would to my way of thinking add little in extra benefit. I have heard that this sharpening was done 'en bloc' when the Germans were initially mobilising for the war, and was done more as a phsychological thing to impress upon the troops that this was IT - this was the big one ie. no longer just a drill - and to make sure they were mentally prepared for battle. Has anyone got anything further to add on that.? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 10 December , 2010 Share Posted 10 December , 2010 According to J A Carter the first indication of the change to the S.98/05 appeared in a letter, dated 11th September 1914, in which the Amberg Arsenal informed the Bavarian War Ministry that C G Haenel and V C Schilling had informed them that Prussian contracts for the S98 had been changed to the S98/05. By October 1914 all Prussian contracts with the various manufacturers had been changed in favour of this bayonet. On 21st January 1915 Amberg reported that production of the S.98 was now officially suspended.SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 11 December , 2010 Author Share Posted 11 December , 2010 According to J A Carter the first indication of the change to the S.98/05 appeared in a letter, dated 11th September 1914, in which the Amberg Arsenal informed the Bavarian War Ministry that C G Haenel and V C Schilling had informed them that Prussian contracts for the S98 had been changed to the S98/05. By October 1914 all Prussian contracts with the various manufacturers had been changed in favour of this bayonet. On 21st January 1915 Amberg reported that production of the S.98 was now officially suspended.SW Great stuff SW - I was hoping you may have some extra info in that regard so thanks for adding - much appreciated. So it would appear that the decision to make these bayonets obsolescent was made almost immediately after the initial battles of the war. Perhaps even before the static confinement of trench warfare had become so ingrained on the Western Front.? So were they that BAD - that unsuitable on the modern battlefield of the time, that a more fitting replacement was immediately deemed necessary.? Whatever their faults they must have been seen as critically important as this change marked the end of the long bayonet in frontline German service forever. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 13 December , 2010 Share Posted 13 December , 2010 Great stuff SW - I was hoping you may have some extra info in that regard so thanks for adding - much appreciated. So it would appear that the decision to make these bayonets obsolescent was made almost immediately after the initial battles of the war. Perhaps even before the static confinement of trench warfare had become so ingrained on the Western Front.? So were they that BAD - that unsuitable on the modern battlefield of the time, that a more fitting replacement was immediately deemed necessary.? Whatever their faults they must have been seen as critically important as this change marked the end of the long bayonet in frontline German service forever. Cheers, S>S Yes, but don't forget that the change was not regarded as so urgent that those bayonets in service were immediately withdrawn. The S.98 remained in front line use certainly well into the summer of 1916 as photographs from that period show them being displayed as souvenirs and I have picked them up in the Guedecourt area and Guillemont. I have also seen a nice photo of a British Officer supervising a party digging a communication trench near Martinpuich. Lying on the ground nearby is a Gew 98 with fixed S.98 complete with scabbard and frog. Clearly his souvenir. So they were certainly used by the Infantry for at least two years. SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gew98 Posted 18 December , 2010 Share Posted 18 December , 2010 I have a 1915 Dated S98......Haenel made I think off hand. I am aware of other 15 dated S98's out there. There's no doubt in my mind the S98 was still around in the field as I have seen them in US veteran lots of items. Now whether they procured them from brit or french sources as souvenirs who know , but I'd think otherwise as I recall pictures of german troops stacking rifles and sticking the bayonets in the ground next to them in 1918 and there was no shortage of S98's stuck in the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jjewell Posted 5 April , 2015 Share Posted 5 April , 2015 I am hoping that someone on this forum can help me find out more about at M1898 "Quillback" n/A bayonet that my great uncle got off of a German officer in WW1 while serving as a physician. I have been unsuccessful in tracking the numbers on the cross guard that are stamped with a U.1.71. and the blade with ERFURT and a crown. The quill of the blade is stamped with a crown, W, 05. The scabbard is marked with 65.R(script).2.20. Is there any way to tell the history of the bayonet? Many of you appear to be very knowledgable based on the reading I have done on the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 5 April , 2015 Share Posted 5 April , 2015 I am hoping that someone on this forum can help me find out more about at M1898 "Quillback" n/A bayonet that my great uncle got off of a German officer in WW1 while serving as a physician. I have been unsuccessful in tracking the numbers on the cross guard that are stamped with a U.1.71. and the blade with ERFURT and a crown. The quill of the blade is stamped with a crown, W, 05. The scabbard is marked with 65.R(script).2.20. Is there any way to tell the history of the bayonet? Many of you appear to be very knowledgable based on the reading I have done on the forum. Welcome to GWF jjewel! This sounds like a nice piece! The W 05 on the blade spine is for Wilhelm of Prussia and indicates the bayonet was made in 1905, Erfurt was the State Arsenal for Prussia. Below the '05' there will be (or should be!) a crown over a Gothic letter - that is the Abnahmenstempel of 'fraktur' mark of the inspector who approved it for service, The crossguard letter/number indicates that it was originally issued to an 'Unteroffizierschule', and to its 1 Kompagnie, and was its 'waffe' (weapon) no. 71. The scabbard marking indicates that the scabbard was with a bayonet originally issued to the 65.Infanterie Regiment, 2.Kompagnie, Waffe 20. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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