The Farm , Gallipoli

[jim_davies]

I've been having difficulty finding much out about the actions at the Farm, Gallipoli in August 1915, especially the death of Baldwin and the over-running of several units at that location.

Is anyone aware of any eyewitness accounts of this action, or any books that deal with the incident in detail.

Thanks,

Jim

[Paul Reed]

I have a little bit on my website re. the 9th Worcesters action at:

http://battlefields1418.50megs.com/the_far...rm_cemetery.htm

But you may already be familiar with this?

[jim_davies]

Thanks Paul,

Great website. I was especially interested with the page on Hill 60 as my great great uncle (or should that be great granduncle ?) was KIA on 27 Aug 1915 with the 5/Connaught Rangers.

Its very telling that such a large proportion of the burials are unknown at the Farm. (Much like the rest of Gallipoli unfortunately)

From the few photographs (modern day) I have seen, it would appear that the area seems to be heavily wooded, would this have been the case in 1915 ?

All the best,

Jim

[MartinWills]

Jim,

The Farm is one of my favourite places on the peninsula, tucked out of the way and often not accessed by visitors because of the steep approach. Last year the cemetery underwent what were apparently it's first significant repairs since it was laid out and constructed. The overunning of the units there meant bodies were not recovered until 1919 hence virtually all burials are unknown.

Whilst there are present day trees between Chunuk Bair and the Farm, the area below is essentially dense scrub (I had the scratches to prove it...) and this is how the whole area was in 1915. Wood was a real scarcity at the time and trees were few and far between in the area (apart from olive trees in cultivated areas - principally towards Cape Helles and the opposite side of the peninsula. I am of the opinion that many of the wooden grave markers were used after the evacuation by Turkish soldiers as firewood to help keep warm. I don't think the tommies or Anzacs would have denied them this luxury. One only has to read of the battles amongst our troops for scraps of wood during our brief occupation to understand the value of any scrap of timber.

You may already have tried some of these sources, but here goes:

The involvement of the Worcesters is covered in some detail in the Regimental history (The Worcestershire Regiment in the Great War - Stacke) which is the finest regimental history I have seen and which does not stint on detail or maps. I suggest you try an inter-library loan. Originals are like gold dust and even the recent reprint costs £65 or so.

There is some info about the Gloucesters in the IWM "on-line exhibition" at

http://www.iwm.org.uk/online/gallipoli/sariopen.htm

This includes a pdf download of a paper by Peter Simkins.

If anyone has not explored this "online exhibition" I would commend it to you. It includes detailed papers, photos, panoramas, movie clips and recorded accounts by veterans.

There is a fair bit of info in the Official History (Military Operations - Gallipoli vol. 2)

I recall one account of the scene describing how the Turks swept down upon the Farm from the summit, but I cannot for the life of me remember where. I will delve into a few more sources and see if I can come up with anything else for you. I imagine that eye witness accounts are few and limited as there were few, if any, survivors.

[Andrew P]

Hi Martin

I think Bean mentioned the Farm in his official Australian history & also 'Gallipoli Mission'.

I seem to recall that when Bean's party got there in 1919 the bones of the dead were still lying everywhere and caused much depression among his his group.

Regards

Andrew

[Hedley Malloch]

The Farm is avery moving and evocative place set at the foot of the very steep hill that slopes up to Chunuk Bair. The Official History describes how the Turkish troops poured down the hill to engage the British troops in the vicinity of the Farm in desperate hand-to-hand fighting. There were precious few survivors on either side when the fighting stopped. Not much imagination is required to recapture the feelings of the British troops as they saw the Turkish troops swarmed down the slope that fateful morning.

Trees for the Turks are symbolic; in Islam the tree represents the human race; individual people are the flowers of the tree which die and fall off - but the tree lives on. The cypress, which was extensively planted all over Gallipoli, is the tree associated with death and memory. Its height and sweeping upward movemements represent the ascent of the soul to heaven and for this reason it's frequently found in cemeteries.

So the Turks are criticised for planting so many cypresses in Gallipoli. The argument is that in time they will blank out the battlefield. A massive fire about 7 years ago gave a temporary reprieve to the process, but it's fair to say that if you want to see Gallipoli, especially Anzac and Suvla, in anything like their 1915 condition then do it in the next 10 years or so before re-afforestation takes hold.

Before we criticise the Turks we should bear in mind that the tree to them is what the poppy is to us.

[Paul Reed]

So the Turks are criticised for planting so many cypresses in Gallipoli. The argument is that in time they will blank out the battlefield. ...Before we criticise the Turks we should bear in mind that the tree to them is what the poppy is to us.

Who is criticising them Hedley - I must say I hadn't heard of this before?

[paul guthrie]

My first visit was last fall. Because of the fire I expected some pretty open views at Anzac and was a bit disappointed in that respect but did not hear the criticism.

[Bryn_Hammond]

There is some info about the Gloucesters in the IWM "on-line exhibition" at

http://www.iwm.org.uk/online/gallipoli/sariopen.htm

This includes a pdf download of a paper by Peter Simkins.

If anyone has not explored this "online exhibition" I would commend it to you. It includes detailed papers, photos, panoramas, movie clips and recorded accounts by veterans.

Martin

Thanks very much for the 'Mention' for the IWM online exhibition. I am glad you like it.

The exhibition would not have been possible without the input of IWM and Australian War Memorial staff (many of the latter didn't know they were going to produce material for the web until we told them!).

However, my point in writing now is to say that a great deal of historical material on the site came from two colleagues and chums of mine, Peter Hart and Nigel Steel. In return for their extensive help, I NEVER miss an opportunity to plug their excellent book 'Defeat at Gallipoli.'

If anyone who is following this thread hasn't read this book, I thoroughly recommend it.

Oh, by the way, keep watching the IWM web site (www.iwm.org.uk) for an important new development in the next few weeks. I hope!

Bryn

[Myrtle]

Bryn

I agree "Defeat at Gallipoli " is an excellent book. There was a very good day on Gallipoli at The National Army Museum last November involving Nigel Steel, Peter Hart and Michael Hickey.

Regards

Myrtle

[jim_davies]

Thanks everyone for all the input.

The IWM site has some great first hand accounts, especially a couple from 5/Norfolk men, which I've found very interesting.

Unfortunately most of the detailed accounts I've come across generally deal with the units that got a little closer to the crest-line of the ridge.

My main interest in the event is due to the Connaught Rangers being called up from Lone Pine on August 10, arriving close to the Farm at about 2.00pm.

Jim

[Hedley Malloch]

Who is criticising them Hedley - I must say I hadn't heard of this before?

I've heard it in some quarters; Aussies and Kiwis round the 'Down Under' hotel in Eceabat mainly. Also from some local Turks worried about the long term effects of afforestation on tourism.

You haven't heard of the afforestation or the criticism? The Turks had a plan to afforest large areas of Anzac and Suvla, though not Cape Helles. The Turks don't have much time for exhumation, believing that it is pointless when the whole area is 'soaked in martyr's blood'. Accordingly the whole area should be treated as one huge cemetery and afforested à la mode Verdun.

At least that was the view. The Turks started the process round Chunuk Bahir/Battleship Hill/Baby 700 in the late 80's/early 90's, but much of it was destroyed in a large fire in 1993 or 4 which killed the Park Superintendent; his charred glasses and watch are on display in the Museum above Brighton Beach. The fire was believed to have been started deliberately and was one of a number occuring in Turkey at this time. The rumour was that they were all started by land speculators anxious to keep the land clear for useful things like holiday bungalows. Another complicating factor was that extinguishing the fire was made dangerous by all the unexploded ammunition lying around.

So when I was last there in 2000 the Turks were having second thoughts about it. I do not know what has been decided since.

[Alan Seymour]

Jim,

On page 509, Vol. 1 The Great War 'I Was There!' - Undying Memories of 1914-1918 Edited by Sir J. Hammerton pub. by The Almalgamated Press Ltd, London. The following article:-

"I had to Shoot My Friends" - Insane Carnage on a Gallipoli Farm by Digger Craven.

In four days and three nights of fighting 16,000 men were lost. In this account this New Zealand private relates how, in order to save his friends from horrible death in blazing scrub, he was compelled to shoot them. Well worth a read.

If you haven't already done so "The Connaught Rangers" Vol. III by Jourdain & Fraser, page 28-32 gives details of the Attack at Chunak Bair and pages 37-73 "Hill 60"

An interesting point also mentioned in the footnote on page 30:- Chunnak Bair, known to the Turks as "Dchonk Bair," pronounced "Jonk Byre," mis-written on the English maps as Chunak Bair. Dchonk appears to have been a man's name.

Alan Seymour

[jim_davies]

Alan,

Thanks for the sources. I'm in the US so sometimes it's a little hard to find everything.

Is Jourdain who wrote "The Connaught Rangers" Vol III, the same men as the 5th battalin c/o at Gallipoli ?

Jim

[Alan Seymour]

Jim,

The author Lieut.-Col. Henry Francis Newdigate Jourdain, C.M.G. was Temp. Lieut.-Col. 5th (S.) Bn. 19th Aug. 1914-10th Feb. 1917, (Gallipoli, actions at Suvla, Sari Bair and Scimitar Hill and Hill 60). He retired 16th Aug. 1922 on disbandment of 2nd Battalion, he was the last Lieut.-Col. of The Connaught Rangers.

Alan Seymour