Transporting the BEF, Aug. & Sept., 1914

[lostinspace]

Hello all,

With the help of another forum member I am attempting to build an OOB of the BEF as they left for France in August and September of 1914, this includes the ships used to transport them across the channel, in addition we are trying to find the year the ship was built and the gross registered tonnage. The unit war diaries (sometimes) provides the name of the ship but of course no details. Here are five ships we are having difficulty with (so far) - S.S. Achilbister (sp?), S.S. Karnak, S.S. Cheverton, S.S. Merchant and S.S. Siptah. We have had good results searching the online maritime sites but haven't had any luck with these particular vessels.

Thanks in advance,

Dave

[Esskay]

Presume you know about this site - there is a small fee now - but it is a great source if you are doing a lot of this

http://www.miramarshipindex.org.nz/

In the meantime - this could well be the SS Merchant

http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/viewship.asp?id=4956

Cheers

Sue

[Esskay]

The Karnak - according to The Ships List - looks to have been built in 1899 as the Annam - she was renamed Tourane in 1904 and then Karnak in 1912 - she was operated by Messageries Maritimes, Marseille and was torpedoed and sunk by German submarine U-32 in the Mediterranean on November 27th, 1916 about 70 miles SE of Valetta, Malta when on route from Marseilles & Malta for Saloniki (per wrecksite.eu)

See also - http://www.uboat.net/wwi/boats/successes/u32.html

Cheers

Sue

[Esskay]

The Siptah

http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/viewship.asp?id=15425

Sue

[lostinspace]

Sue,

Thanks so much, certainly didn't take you long to find three of them! Yes, the Miramar site was great, I used it until late last year (I think) when they began charging a fee. I wasn't sure about the Karnak, it is the first French ship I've run across being used to ferry British troops, wouldn't think that there would be two ships operating with the same name at the same time though. I do have another ship that I'm not quite sure about - the S.S. Ada. Found a lot of Australian sailing ships with that name but only one vessel registered in Great Britain (built 1905, 529 g.r.t.), seems too small to be carrying troops or equipment.

Thanks again,

Dave

[Carmania]

Dave

The Karnak used as an Expeditionary Force Transport was built in 1906 and was hired from Jas Moss & Co for trooping from Southampton to France. Her pendant number was C.6108 and she was used from 6th August 1914, her speed was 10^1₂ knots, 3,171 gross tons.

Aled

[lostinspace]

Thanks for the clarification Aled, so there were two ships with the same name at the same time, different nationalities though, the French "Inventor" probably worked in the Med. since that's where she was sunk. All input is greatly appreciated, thanks again Sue and Aled.

Dave

[sotonmate]

Dave

Spellings as shown in the War Diary ! But they could be wrong I guess !

If you look in the Lloyd's List there are often several ships of the same name, identity is in those circumstances then defined by Official Number (ON) and/or Certification authority.

Your sidekick has only to ask and I will look in the Lloyds' List at my local Library for him !

Sotonmate

[NickRing]

Hi,

i am attaching a page from my own project regarding my Grandfathers WW1 experiences. As a Trooper in the Cavalry he was transported to the front on the SS Siptah in 1916. Also you may be interested in a reference to the ship in a book 'Dover During the Dark Days' by Stanly Williams.

I hope you find them useful.

Regards

Nick

With the Inniskillings France 1916.doc

DOVER DURING THE DARK DAYS.doc

[sotonmate]

Dave

Diverted into the Maritime Special Collections this morning en route to a spot of shopping ! Lloyd's Register shows this:

1. ACHLIBSTER is the correct spelling.4395 tons. Built 1906 by Richardson Duck and Co, of Stockton England,for the Achlibster Shipping Co Ltd. Port of Reg.Cardiff.

2. KARNAK. Three of the name,one discarded as it was built and operated from Hamburg !

A second one registered in Marseilles and operated by Messagerie Maritime. The third seems to hit the spot- 3171 tons.Built 1906 by J Blunes Shipyard, Sunderland,England, for the Moss Steamship Company Ltd,home port Liverpool.

3. CHIVERTON ( no ship of the name Cheverton listed) 3876 tons. Built 1912 by J Redhead of South Shields,England for Ilderton Steamship Company Ltd. Port of registry London.

4. MERCHANT. 3682 tons. Built 1908 bt C Connell and Co.of Glasgow,Scotland for Charente Steamship Company Ltd ( operated by T&J Harrison). Port of Registry Liverpool.

5. SIPTAH. 2811 tons. Built 1906 by Clyde Shipbuilding and Eng.Co Ltd for William Cory and Son Ltd. Port of registry London.

All tonnages shown are Gross.

(Sidekick)Sotonmate

[Tunsilk]

Dave

Just a postscipt as there is a missprint

Karnak the shipyard was J Bulmer & Co, North Dock, Sunderland.

Shipyard closed many years ago. Launching in to small dock meant small ships and the requirement was for increasingly larger vessels. The dock is now a marina.Sadly of course there now no ship building in Sunderland at all.

Good luck with your quest.

Regards

David

[lostinspace]

A belated thank you to Nick, SM and David, I guess I should go back and read the threads that I start every so often!

Thanks again,

Dave

[Chris Best]

Hi lostinspace

How has the project gone? I see there's been no activity on this thread for 3 years. Perhaps this will resurrect it, extracted from WD of 5 Fd Amb which had commenced mobilization at Redan Hill Camp on 5 Aug 14.

18 Aug 14 - 0920 hrs first train at Southampton docks and embarks 7 officers, 99 R&F RAMC, 24 ASC, 11 riding horses, 23 draught horses, 4 ambulances, 6 GS (4-wheeled) wagons and 2 x 2-wheeled.

18 Aug 14 - 1020 hrs second train arrives, detains and embarks 5 officers, 83 RAMC, 19 ASC, 5 riding horses, 31 draught horses, 6 ambulances, 2 GS (4-wheeled) wagons 4x 2-wheeled.

All the 4-wheeled GS wagons plus an NCO and wagon orderlies are loaded on SS ACHLIBSTER whilst all other men, animals and vehicles are embarked on SS WELSHMAN.

18 Aug 14 - SS WELSHMAN to sea at 2100 hrs.

19 Aug 14 - Latrine accommodation for Officers very bad only 2 seats for 43 officers. Theses soon became choked up. Landed at 1010 hrs at Boulogne proceeded to land horses and wagons. All completed by 1630 hrs except those on SS ACHLIBSTER which is anchored outside.

19 Aug 14 - 1700 hrs [main body] marched to Camp Marlboro', joined 20 Aug 14 at 0230hrs by party from SS ACHLIBSTER.

19 Aug 14 - SS ACHLIBSTER berthed at 10 [2200 hrs]. A fatigue partyof 2 officers and 12 men left behind for the purpose helped at offloading.

Hope that helps.

Chris

[lostinspace]

Chris,

I haven't taken my own advise......again! With the help of a couple of other forum members I'm still working on the project, thought I would have it done by August, but no, other priorities have taken up most of my time this summer and fall. I'm continuing to receive information from Kew, via the kindness of another forumite (who doesn't want to be named), so maybe will have it finished next year. War diaries and battalion histories are the sources of just about all our info but it's a hard slog; amazingly, in quite a number of cases, the person writing the diary didn't have accurate dates or even know what ship he was on, sometimes there isn't any information at all - especially in the artillery and A.S.C. diaries.
I will make our project available to everyone on the forum (when finished). Thanks for your interest (plus the info on the 5th F.A.) and sorry it took me so long to reply!

Dave