Why did he not receive Army Long Service medal?

[RNCVR]

I have a grp of medals to a man who served both in the Army & RN & rec;d pensions for service in both. I have him currently noted in the Cemeteries section of the forum requesting info on his gravesite.

His name is Edward Boyce & he served for over 24 years as a Bandsman & Band Sergt in the K.O.S.B. with exemplary conduct - he was never ent'd in the Regimental defaulters book & never had any marks against him, yet he never recd an Army LS medal.

After he went to pension he joined the RN & served for another 27 years in the Commander in Chief's Band at Devonport - he did receive his Naval LS medal in 1893, & after discharge in '09 rec'd a Naval pension in addition to his Army pension.

I think he should have rec'd an Army LS medal as well - any one have any idea why he did not receive one??

Bryan

[Tim Godden]

I am just guessing but isn't it 25 years in the army. Ignore me if I am wrong

All the best,

Tim

[DirtyDick]

Hi Bryan

I think the current 18 years' qualifying service came into force in the 1870s, it previously having been 21 years (infantry and others) and 25 years for the cavalry. If he joined as a very young boy he may not have acquired the requisite service post 18 yrs old - especially if he served when he would only have become entitled to the LSGC after 21 years' adult service. I assume he joined the RN in 1878 to qualify by 1893, which would tally with the above details.

Less likely: could also be an administrative oversight. Perhaps at the time he could not wear both awards and so one was returned - but this would no doubt have been recorded on his records.

Richard

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

I am just guessing but isn't it 25 years in the army.

The Original Army Long Service & Good Conduct Medal 1830;was awarded for 21 Years in the Infantry or 20 in the Cavalry;This was amended in 1930; to 18 years,the Naval LSGC was awarded for 15 Years irreproachable service.

I believe that now it is 15 Years for all Armed Forces

[RNCVR]

Thanks chaps for yr responses - here is more of Boyce's history ----

I knew the Army LS was 18 yrs from 1870 onwards & thats why I asked the LS question as I felt he qualified for the LS medal.

Boyce had a total of 24 yrs 9 months service - 20 yrs,211 days of those as adult (over 18 yrs of age) service. In addition he was allowed to count 4 yrs 30 days underage service towards his pension & this is noted on his SR under Royal warrant dated 25 June '81, so his total towards pension was over 24 yrs. So he certainly had the req'd 18 yrs for award of the LS medal.

He ent'd the KOSB as a Band boy of 13 yrs, 11 1/2 months on 26 Sep 1857 & was discharged to pension on 13 June 1882.

He entered the RN on 23 Dec 82 as a Bandsman & was discharged to pension in June 1909. He must have been well overage as he would have been almost 65 yrs of age! He was awarded his Naval LS medal Jan 1893 after 10 yrs Naval service. The Naval LS medal only req'd 10 yrs service at that time. It was increased to 15 yrs service after Dec 1884.

He did not receive an Army LS medal - at least if he did it certainly was not recorded on his SR - both his campaign medals are noted. & he is not wearing the medal in either of the pictures I have of him wearing his three medals.

I dont know if there are any regulations permitting (or not permitting) the wear of both service's LS medals???

I wonder if any PALS might know of other men who had double Army/Navy pensions or double Army/Navy LS awards???

Bryan

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

I have seen examples of awards of two different LSGCs;Army,Navy Air Force, EM,Police,so do not imagine there is any preclusion from receiving two medals if seperately earned,also time spent in one Service would count if you had transferred to another arm of service,prior to full entitlement time served & had not been awarded a LSGC{ie:if after serving 8 years in the Navy you transferred to the Army~that 8 years would count towards Army LSGC}

[RNCVR]

Yes Harry, I have seen the Army & RAF LS medals worn together, so assumed it was "kosher" to wear both, & of course the, Colonial LS/EM & EM/ED & CD combo here is Canada on the pre war Militiamen, but never an Army/Navy LS combo.

As an interesting aside to this - I have in my collection a Naval LS group, in which he had a long (& varied) career in RN, & RAF. He made Group Captain in WWII - I wonder if there are any other RAF G/C's entitled to wear the Naval LS??? Its the highest rank I have ever heard of wearing a Naval LS - be interesting to know if unique???? (perhaps a new thread?)

Bryan