Why The Great War?

[Bob Coulson]

I am often asked, usually over a few beers, why I'm so interested in WW1 or to be more specific the Western Front.

To be quite honest I can't really explain why I have such an interest and yet must admit it's had me hooked for quite a few years now.

I usually mutter something about what a fascinating subject it is and then swiftly move on.

Do any forum people have the same problem or could someone comment on what grabs their attention so much on this subject.??

Would really appreciate others views.

[Christina Holstein]

Bob,

If you think you've got problems ....... you should try being a lone foreign woman among historical groups out here that are pretty much entirely composed of local people with deep roots in the area. Since I've no obvious reason to be interested in WWI (no military background, not an engineer, not a teacher, not married to someone who is any of those things), but am prepared to drive a long way to spend a day walking or tunnelling with people I don't know who aren't English-speaking, I'm always regarded at first with some slight suspicion. It's almost as bad back home in Luxembourg where the remark 'I've just published a book about a fort at Verdun' generally stops conversation totally! I hate being asked to elaborate, because to try to explain to the normal Luxembourg dinner party my own particular interests in WWI just produces looks so blank that I feel as if I'm on another planet. Oddly enough, I get a better reaction to my interest from women than from men.

These days, being less polite than I used to be, I tell people what I find interesting about iWWI and other periods of military history, but I don't find that anyone else joins in.

I was assailed once at a cocktail party (I hate cocktail parties) by a woman who swanned over waving her glass and crying 'Oh, you're the woman who's interested in WWI. My brother wouldn't agree with you'. When I asked what it was that he wouldn't agree with, she cried 'He didn't think that it was a good thing'. Something to engrave on a headstone, perhaps?

Christina Holstein.

[AOK4]

Try to explain it to a girlfriend you're obsessed with WW1! They never understand. I guess that's why I'm still living with my parents...

But I'm happy, being able to spend all my money on militaria and books...

Jan

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Bob,

When I am asked about the subject my answer depends on the tone of the question. If the person sounds genuinely interested I talk about events in great detail. If the question is hostile or dismissive, I approach the situation by asking whether any of their relatives served. This usually evokes a friendly response and has in a couple of cases sparked an interest to learn what grandad did. In one such case the person concerned found that his grandfather had won the DCM!!

Obviously there are some people who are 'anti' and just provocative full stop. Unfortunately they are judging events that occured at the beginning of the last century with the attitudes of today - I just feel sorry for them!

Ian

[Alan Lines]

Like others, I've no idea where the spark came from especially as I have no relatives that I know off that had any involvement in WW1. For us it's WW1 for others it's trains or stamps.

When people ask me as often as not I move on quickly, but if there is a genuine interest or a close friend asks I'll go into more detail. This has eneded up in a couple of them coming over to the battlefields with me, so don't despair Christine & Bob!

I sympathise with Jan though. With some notebale exceptions I have found women generally to be a lost cause! (only joking!) Seriously though I have shown a couple of mates wifes more personal things like a mother's letter sent to her son asking him to write before she knew he was already dead. This certainly has an effect on them, but unfortunatley not for long.

[Mark A]

I think my love of studying the Great War came together through a whole bunch of different factors. I guess I would have to say it was through A-level poetry (studying Owen et al) a passion for history as a subject in general, family involvement in the war and the fact that my parents lived for a time in Paris allowing me to travel easily along the Western Front.

I don't know about anyone else, but I've always been fascinated by the people you meet on the battlefields. Keen amateur historians, clearly bewildered families who have driven off the motorway out of vague curiosity, people on a pilgramage looking for relatives, literary travellers walking in a poet's footsteps. It's a great tapestry of people and I've met people of all political persuasions- from hard right to left -wing, pro-war, anti-war, gay, straight.

I guess there's a lot of reasons why people can be fascinated by the Great War. So much happened in that period in terms of social, military, political and in people's family history that it attracts a broad swathe of interests.

Anyway enough blah, blahing from me.

[Marco]

In light of Nils Fabiansson’s discussion elsewhere on this forum it’s of interest to note that the only ‘reason’ outsiders that I meet seem to comprehend 100% is when you say ‘you can still find stuff’. The rest of the conversation is then usually spend explaining that this is a relatively small part making up for the interest.

Regards,

Marco

[Jacky Platteeuw]

Why the Great War? It is pretty obvious I think living on and near the old battlefields. However a lot of locals have no intrest at all and when you are in a conversation and mentioning that your hobby is WW1 (don't talk about the Great war to them they surely wouldn't understand ) indeed you look like an allien. Nevertheless this is widely compensated by the fact that if I make or being contacted by English speaking people in Ypres they almost certainly are interested in the Great War or the closest chocolate shop.

Jacky

[john w.]

Bob

For me the Great War had it all like any other war, except for one major ingredient

Moving pictures, still photos, accounts, newspapers..... unlike any other war you could see people. People who lived and died.

The hardest thing for anyone to understand is what was it like? what was it like to be under fire? explosions death, maiming..

We live in a society and time when our experiences and knowledge is generated by what we see and read. The Great War has all that. Wars before this relied on texts, but it wasn't until the 1850s with the Crimea and the Amercian Civil War that the reality was driven home, through the wider use of photograps, by comparison Homer's Illyad doesn't have the same drawing power in the 20th century.

The Somme figures heavily in many people's minds, in many respects because it was filmed as it happens and some of the most dramatic footage was captured. It was dramatic because we who see it now know what was about to happen, for example the sea of faces taken in the sunken road before the advance on Beaumont Hammel.

Since then, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War and so on all present the viewer with the reality of the situation. Even the D Day attack in Saving Private Ryan is awesome and is a milestone in such recreations ( based on the D Day vets who saw the film in a pre release screening )

So why does the Great War stand out against this?

For me it revolves around the death of innocence, class, society, also using new technology, weapons of mass destruction to coin a phrase, without realising the impact of its use.

John

[Cynthia]

As another one of the 'female minority' on the Forum, and an American to boot, I not only get asked "Why?" from many people, but especially why I am so interested in the British involvement as opposed to the American involvement in the Great War. Not to generalise too much, but I have often found that women find a personal connection first, such as a relative or a story, and then become interested in the other aspects that led to the circumstances of the story, such as the pre-war and war years.

As a teacher and counselor at a University, I found the best way to interest American students in something that has little impact on them is to tell them the story of a British soldier and his life, before, during and after the War, if there was an "after" for that soldier. As John pointed out, the death of innocence, the intensity of the slaughter, and the outcomes we still feel today can be related to by most people, male or female, European or American.

Most women seem to shy away from "War" talk because they think it will be all about 'boy toys' and blood and slaughter. It seems to me that all people suffered in the Great War, women particularly afterwards, as they carried on without their beloved sons, brothers, fiancees, or husbands. I think Mary Ellen Freeman put it best in her book "Poets and Pals of Picardy" when she said it was almost impossible to explain once you are infected with the Great War 'virus.' Perhaps for women like Christina (even if she is called Bonecrusher!), Myrtle, Kate, Alie, and others, whose names I look for especially when I read the posts, it may be even more difficult. My interest started from one boy's story; it has now become far more than that, and one I cannot explain to anyone, so I just tell them the story. Sometimes they understand.

Cynthia

[Mark A]

In 1999 I went to a Professor Richard Holmes book signing and I asked the same question, "why all the revived interest in the great war?". In answering he quoted from his book where the pals battalions advanced on Serre, despite the consistent and heavy shell fire which looked for all the world like a "row of polar trees". He said he knew it was an emptional reaction, but he found the innocence and trust implicit in their action fascinating. So I agree with you John, the innocence surrounding WW1 is interesting.

It's a good question though, how innocent were that generation? Or are we, in our less innocent times projecting that on to them?

[Guest Hill 60]

Try to explain it to a girlfriend you're obsessed with WW1! They never understand.

I must be one of the lucky ones! When I met Jean, about 2 years ago, she knew zilch about WWI; she is now hooked on it!

She now 'hunts down' CWGC graves to members of the Cyclist units, collects Sweetheart Brooches, Medals and cap-badges; there is less and less space for my medal collection nowdays

I have been ridiculed by my boss in front of my shift for being 'obsessed' by WWI & I have been asked by a pompous well-off 'gentleman' why someone of my standing would have an interest in WWI, weren't my sort more interested in football? My Sort?

[Tim Birch]

My interest started in the 1960's when one holiday I set off with a mate in my car (a frog eyed Sprite) to explore Europe. We got a very late night sailing to Ostend and somehow finished up in the small hours near Ypres feeling very tired. We pulled off the road into what looked like a layby and fell asleep. I woke at dawn to find we were in fact parked in the entrance to a CWGC cemetery (I can't remember where). I got out of the car and in the early morning dew wandered amongst the headstones. This had a profound effect on me as I read the inscriptions and ages of the soldiers and realised that I was the same age as those guys had been. I decided to learn more about the Great War and from that moment embarked on a life long interest.

Like others have said, I find other people's reactions to my interest amusing, but I also find there is an awful lot of popular misconception out there. The most common reaction is that it was the war in which poor conscripts were sent by their millions to their deaths by unfeeling, hide bound and ancient Generals who were living it up in Chateaux hundreds of miles behind the line; and that the soldiers had no choice, if they went over the top they died, if they refused they were shot. For the rest of the time the soldiers lived in trenches up to their armpits in mud...

Once I start trying to put the record a bit straighter, I find that people become interested, and it is certainly a subject which engenders a lot of discussion and debate. I don't agree that women tend to show less interest than men, I know a number of women who have become very interested and have become avid readers of books on the subject, particularly first hand accounts.

My wife, Margaret, is not over keen on any history, but she has become an enthusiastic battlefield walker. The Somme in particular is an area she loves for it's beauty yet it saddens her to think of the tens of thousands of the Missing who are out there.

Tim

[Guest woodyudet]

Haha, this is an amusing thread...

... My name is woody and i'm a greatwaraholic ....

Theories why people some become interested/obsessed with great war ...

a: Controversy - its still very controversial. Nothing attracts moths like a flame ...

b: WW2 is very passe ... for those of us overladen with watching WW2 movies etc, WW1 seems like a strange and distant

relative. For those interested in Military [as opposed to naval] History, WW1 is beyond comparison with any other conflict in British history due to scale and size of commitment. The popular memory of WW2 is very well known and overshadows WW1 [at least it did...], thus attracting the inquisitive to WW1.

c: Juxtaposition: The juxtaposition of the remnants of feudalism ... Dukes, Kaisers, Barons, Lancers etc with modern concepts and technology such as submarines, tanks maybe a simplified cliche of WW1, but it does attract interest from both ends of the 'spectrum'. Those interested in 'Napoleonics' are drawn to WW1 to view its demise in the same way as those interested in armoured or aerial warfare require knowledge of their inception. From the political side, anyone interested in Russian, Irish or Middle East history has to take account of WW1, which again attracts interest.

d: Schools

This is very important I think. I was taught WW1 history at primary school, GCSE secondary school, BA level and now MA level. The first world war is accesible to teachers and pupils in a way WW2 is not - WW2 is far too large in scale and scope for many school teachers [at least that is what i've been told]. The literature /drama angle is very important - especially at school level, given that teachers like to use a single subject area as the focus of multiple skill based activities, be it History, Geography, English lit , French [on battlefield trips ...] etc. Personally I'm with Lord Flasheart in regards to the 'endless poetry', but if it gets people interested, it can't be a bad thing. The proximity of the Battlefields no doubt helps.

e: Coalition Warfare

Although coaltions had existed before, the pre-1914 communications revolution allowed day-to-day coalition management. anyone interest in Multinational organisations be it League of Nations, SHAEF, UN, NATO etc has to start with the creation of the Supreme War Council at Versailles. This aspect has been illuminated in various years, and given current events is likely to undergo various re-interpretations.

f: Heavy Metal ...

From meeting people very interested in WW1, *some* of them can be fairly nihilistic, apocalyptic or into death and destruction on and industrial scale - what I would call the 'Storm of Steel' gang. This can appall some people, but listenening to 'Superunknown' by Soundgarden on repeat while reading Somme 1916 can be quite an interesting experience. Don't knock it until you try it.

the overriding reason however i think is the dreaded 'C' word:

casualties

woody

[robwilliams]

I've always been interested in history and more especially, military history. I remember badgering a teacher to allow me to do a school project on Napoleonic warfare rather than industrial revolution, he gave in !

For many years I was acutely interested in Napoleonics but one day the reality of the 'ordinaryness' of WW1 hit me. By that I mean the fact that my own ancestors took part, huge numbers of men, and women, from my home city took part, ordinary people, like me. I've never looked back. Now I combine family history with WW1 and have found another ancestor who died only a couple of weeks ago. What more could a historian ask for.

Twenty years ago my gran gave me a British War Medal from a relative. That started off the medal collecting, but the most important part of that was remembering and cherishing the memory of the man whose medal I was holding. One of my shift bosses at work thought there was something wrong with the medal collecting. A couple of trips to France/Belgium later and he understood how I allowed the soldier's name and memory to live on.

Like someone above I have studied the subject all the way to Masters level. When the kids are older I shall fulfil another dream and start my doctorate...heaven.

Rob

[Kate Wills]

In his book Trench Fever, Chris Moore asked “why does the Great War still hurt?” That isn’t quite the phrase I would use, but undoubtedly WW1 touches an exposed nerve, and the sensation produces a range of responses: grief, nostalgia, admiration, a tingle of excitement, even love. I don’t think the last word is too fanciful, and is more versatile than, say, obsessive fascination. Bob, your question is one I have often pondered, and I think the subject is worthy of an article in Stand To! A book even; perhaps this thread could be the start.

My own general explanation to those who ask is that there is no real villian (unlike WW2 where evil was only too apparent). I can mourn virtually every death in WW1.

Then there is the time and place: Europe – La Belle Epoch – Edwardian splendour. I love the optimism and solidity of the period. There was elegance, pride, a sense of fun and adventure.

Also, let’s remember that for us here in Britain it was the first universal war; not only did it soon become global, but was the first time we (who eschewed conscription until 1916) raised a citizen army. Hitherto, the army had been a repository of princes and paupers; the 1914 recruits came from every strata of society; and all these ordinary people are suddenly catapulted into the most extraordinary situation. You know, I often wish I could stop the clock on Aug 5th 1914, and bottle all that enthusiasm and goodwill before anyone gets hurt.

But I can’t, yet I can share the despondency of what followed, admire the courage and comradeship and grieve for a lost world.

[CROONAERT]

Also, let’s remember that for us here in Britain it was the first universal war; not only did it soon become global, but was the first time we (who eschewed conscription until 1916) raised a citizen army.

Not strictly true Kate. I think the Napoleonic campaigns can lay claim to that (in the modern sense).

I think my interest (in all things military)stems from the fact that I'm from a family that can trace it's (direct)male descendants being members of the Army (and fighting in wars/campaigns) from the 1850's to 1991.In away I was destined to be interested from even before I was born.My early childhood was surrounded by the medals ,accoutrements and souvenirs of my ancestors. I think I chose the Great War specifically, because it was one in which a direct ancestor actually didn't fight in (my grandfather(WW2) was too young and my Gt.Grandfather (Boer War) was too old!) and so was a bit of a mystery to me.

Also, whilst a 7-8 year old (ish), one of my favourite comics ,"Battle" (is this still going,by the way?) ran a series called "Charley's War" about an underage volunteer who fought through the Somme,Messines, Ypres, the battles of 1918, Russia and (eventually)France 1940.I learnt a lot from this series and became hooked.I had to see the places that "Charley Bourne" had fought and so, family holidays suddenly went "Western Front".(Luckily, both my parents also got bitten by the "bug" at this time.

I cut out and kept every episode of Charley's War and occasionally re-read it to this day.I still think it's fantastic!

Dave.

[laughton]

And here in Canada, my girls (22 years era) do know that the Great War was the "War to End all Wars" but they had really never taken anything of this in history class as did we (50 years era). It was only in the last few years with all the international events that they started to ask "why was your grandfather in WWI and your dad was in WWII and you are not in a war"? I think they then started to see how lucky they were (as was I). That started me on the road to documenting how this all started with my grandfather, for which I fortunately had some records. It is amazing how this has brought them to think of how lucky they are to be here today - any one of the dads dead means they would not be here. That sank in fast and heavy. We all have a responsibility to keep these memories alive. Why WWI? Perhaps that is as far as we that are alive today can go back - is that too simple? The end result - they now have an interest as they see how important it was to them being here today - we can not forget that thought.

[David_Bluestein]

My passion for this subject has been with me for well over twenty years. My father sparked my interest when he gave me a British War & Victory pair to a British officer when I was no more then ten years of age.

He wanted to share his own interest in the Great War, and his love of medal collecting with me. That’s where it began. I have been intensively collecting medals, diaries, letters, books and anything and everything related the Great War since that time. My interest in medals has its focus primarily in British and Canadian casualties. I believe each medal has an important story to tell, and I see it as my role to unearth that story. In doing so I can help breath life into a long forgotten soldier, who today is merely a shadow of a man who once lived. It’s important to keep their memory alive.

[Dragon]

I would say that it started from being the little girl who was wild with excitement at seeing the Spitfires poised at air exhibitions she used to go to with Daddy and who grew up wanting to fly a Lancaster. “The War” constantly fingered the present, even though it was hundreds of years ago; and my mother’s memories of years when you could summer-swim in bubbling rivers and spring-pick primrose posies ensured that I knew that life in the old days was somehow purer.

Gradually I realised there were two wars and the father who had been maimed in the First had read his son’s stilted letters from the Second. That my grandfather hadn’t been born unable to move his legs, that his uneven shoes, one much clumpier than the other, were not the way his feet had always walked. That the little piece of torn fabric kept in a jam jar had suppurated out of his ulcered leg only a couple of years ago. Fifty years after it was exploded in.

Suddenly my father died, young and I realised that with him went all memories which would explain to me how my grandfather was injured. My grandmother was in an elderly lady’s world of her own, in a care home where soon she would die. I knew that those responsible for clearing her house wouldn’t cherish anything which remained. I was the only remaining relative to whom any of this would have meaning. So I did the only thing I could, which was probably dishonourable: I rummaged out my father’s key to her house, let myself in and found what I needed, in a little drawer which my grandmother had once revealed to me.

From a newspaper, 1916, a tiny cutting as fragile as a moth’s wing: my grandparents’ wedding and their sole night of marriage with him as a perfect human body. From a fake white veranda in a photographer’s studio: a stiff young couple, barely adult, smiling cautiously in frail pictures. From an office somewhere in London: a bald, unemotional and musty form, now cracked and yellow, dated August 6th, 1917, declaring his injury and informing the desolated parents that he was in Dannes Camiers Number 4. From an officer out in Belgium: a thin piece of lined pink notepaper, on which he had the painful duty, etc etc. in stiff, firmly pressed pencilled writing. It still has his muddy finger prints and smudges. And more.

The detective work was born. I needed to fill in the gaps, to go to France and Belgium, to trace his journey in that part of his shattered life, so I could explain the fingering shadows which, when small, I took as normal and which now, with adult understanding and emotions, I find are still there in the shuttered parts of my mind.

Gwyn

(The fiction piece on which I am working at the moment is my way of making my memorial to those dead people.)

[Hedley Malloch]

It's very personal isn't it?

I moved to a new estate when I was 12; the estate was still being built and I befriended the night-watchman (remember them?). He was an ex-NF soldier, a veteran of the Somme. At night, and over a coke brazier, he told me about his experiences. It started then.

Later, when I was 18, in 1964, I did A level history. The syllabus ended on August 3, 1914. Being curious I wanted to know what happened next. As it was 1964 there was no shortage of answers; you couldn't move for books and the Great War tv series was being shown for the first time. I went to the library and took out Barrie Pitt's '1918' and could not put it down. I was so taken with that book I am ashamed to say that to this day I have not returned it; today it occupies pride of place in my WW1 collection with 38 years of library fines due at 3d a week or part thereof.

Then I asked around the family. I learned of a grandfather, an Irish 40-year regular, who went through everything - and never said a word about it; of a great-uncle who enrolled in the RA in 1914, aged 16, and who returned in 1918 in one piece but, in the words of my Gran "as an old man". I also became aware of one who did not come back; he enrolled in August '14 only to be killed six weeks before the end of the war. I looked afresh at the sepia-toned photo on the piano of the young man in uniform.

Also I was a bit of a bolshie in those days. I wanted to know why the British working man had signed up for a fight which was not in his class-interest. After nearly 40 years I am somewhat nearer an answer to that question, but it is not a complete one.

[Cynthia]

Dear Gwyn,

Your description of finding the memories of your grandparents' lives moved me to tears this morning. I wanted to email you privately, but could not see an email for you. I would be most interested in knowing more about your fictional work. I wrote a novel based loosely on the story of the Starks and it is being published later this year. I would enjoy knowing more about your work as your writing is very moving. If you want to contact me, my email is c.panton@csuohio.edu.

Cynthia

[Mark]

Gwyn, I found your description of the photographs and letters incredibly moving.

My three prized photographs are of one of my great uncle's. One shows him and about a dozen others at a training camp in the UK taken in 1916. The second is of him taken in a photographer's studio in uniform without an apparent care in the world. The third was probably taken a few months or weeks before he was killed. His expression is sombre, dark lines ring his eyes which have lost their sparkle, he seems to have the cares of the world on his shoulders. To me these three photographs sum up the Great War - the hope and expectation, the adventure and the grim reality. My great uncle was killed in April 1918, a few weeks after returning from his one and only leave on which he discovered his fiance had been unfaithful to him.

Just one tragic story of many thousands of similar ones but as Hedley says, it's very personal.

[paul guthrie]

Some of these replies are really moving and interesting. I have no substantial family connection as I do to the US Civil War in which my great grandfather served under two famous Confederate Generals Nathan Bedford Forrest and John Hunt Morgan and was captured twice, avoiding execution the second time by using a false name.

I sometimes explain by telling people that WW1 formed the rest of the century and we live with it today in the Balkans and Middle East. That WW2 was the last battle with Italy and Japan changing sides. That it brought the collapse of three major empires, the rise of Stalin and Hitler. Most people are uninterested except perhaps in the US role which they do not understand thinking we won the war, oh the ungrateful French! I point out they lost 1,400,000 to our 50000 and it seems unlikely we saved them on that alone, both Canada and Australia lost more killed.

I suppose my real answer is a life long fascination with history and my opinion this is the most interesting period of all. It has produced so much fine writing and art. The way it was fought is fascinating as well.

It seems I have largely the views of many UK people since I read and speak only English that is not surprising.

It's nice to have a group of people who do not think each other strange!

[zijde26]

The reason why I am interested in the '1ww' is very obvious. I am born midst the miltary cemeteries of the 1ww in the area of the westernfront (Ypres salient) and my grandmother told us lots of stories about the 1ww.

Gilbert Deraedt