Meridian Line Posted 22 October , 2010 Share Posted 22 October , 2010 Is anyone able to tell me which regiment this WW1 soldier belonged to, please, & what the ribbons might signify? Is there a possiblilty he was a Captain? The photo doesn't belong to me, so I felt obliged to edit the face. Many thanks for looking, Louise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 22 October , 2010 Share Posted 22 October , 2010 He is an officer, so possibly a Captain. The ribbons look like those for the Queen's South Africa and the King's South Africa medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 22 October , 2010 Share Posted 22 October , 2010 Louise, I'd go with the Devonshire Rgt, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piorun Posted 22 October , 2010 Share Posted 22 October , 2010 Army Service Corps? I can't see the castle of the Devons. Captain is a possibility - as also others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 22 October , 2010 Share Posted 22 October , 2010 The points on the ASC badge are much more prominent than that of the above, I'll go find some pics... Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meridian Line Posted 22 October , 2010 Author Share Posted 22 October , 2010 I've been told he may have fought in the Boer War....would that fit with the South African Ribbons? He was born in 1874, do you think he would he have fought in WW1 or had a desk job if he was a career soldier? Thanks again for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 22 October , 2010 Share Posted 22 October , 2010 On second looks the crown appears too large for the Devonshires, so could be ASC...do you have a name for this fella Louise? Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 22 October , 2010 Share Posted 22 October , 2010 I've been told he may have fought in the Boer War....would that fit with the South African Ribbons? Yes, the medals were awarded for service in South Africa during the Boer War. He was born in 1874, do you think he would he have fought in WW1 or had a desk job if he was a career soldier? He was young enough to have fought in the Great War. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 22 October , 2010 Share Posted 22 October , 2010 Definitely an officer of the ASC circa WW1, or just after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 23 October , 2010 Share Posted 23 October , 2010 Definitely an officer of the ASC circa WW1, or just after. Agree - wasn't sure at first, but blew up the cap and collar badges and the lettering is clear enough to make out: http://postimage.org/image/2z2blzy78/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meridian Line Posted 23 October , 2010 Author Share Posted 23 October , 2010 Wow...fantanstic, thank you so much!! I'd googled several 100 cap badges yesterday, but coudn't find anything to fit. The soldier is John Dalzell b Cumberland 1874. Between 1891 (age 16 ships steward, Liverpool)& a Times obit. 1928, I can't find any records online. The only medal card for an ASC John Dalzell is for a driver....is that compatable with the rank of Captain? Would there be any insignia on a uniform denoting rank? thanks again, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 23 October , 2010 Share Posted 23 October , 2010 Wow...fantanstic, thank you so much!! I'd googled several 100 cap badges yesterday, but coudn't find anything to fit. The soldier is John Dalzell b Cumberland 1874. Between 1891 (age 16 ships steward, Liverpool)& a Times obit. 1928, I can't find any records online. The only medal card for an ASC John Dalzell is for a driver....is that compatable with the rank of Captain? Would there be any insignia on a uniform denoting rank? thanks again, Hello Louise, 'Driver' was the lowest 'specialised' rank of the ASC (there were also 'Privates') as the Corps existed primarily to convey things around such as wounded in ambulances, ammunition in artillery 'trains' (motorised trucks, but also some horse drawn wagons) and rations and other stores (also trucks and wagons of various kinds), to mention just the most common. Early mechanics also served in the ASC, as well as armourers, farriers, saddlers and harness makers, welders, carpenters and all the trades necessary to sustain trucks, wagons and horses. Captains are commissioned officers and set apart, as a group, from the men they command both socially and professionally, although it was possible to rise from private to captain (especially in war when promotion became accelerated through casualties), but statistically this was rare. Insignia for captains was in the early part of the war worn on the cuffs in the form of pips (3) and bands of mini- chevron lace (2). From about 1916 onwards it became more common for rank to be worn on the shoulders where it was less conspicuous to snipers, widening a practice that had years before been adopted by the Foot Guards and thus bringing all parts of the army in line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 23 October , 2010 Share Posted 23 October , 2010 Here are how the officers rank badges on shoulder strap were configured. The captain is third from the left with 3 'pips'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 23 October , 2010 Share Posted 23 October , 2010 And these are the cuff badges from the early part of the war. Again the captain has 3 pips but this time backed with 2 bands of chevron lace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meridian Line Posted 23 October , 2010 Author Share Posted 23 October , 2010 Frogsmile, thanks for the very comprehensive info on insignia. I'll see if there is a photo of him showing shoulders & arms! I may have found him in the London Gazzette Oct. 1917; ASC J.Dalzell temp. 2nd Lieut. promoted to temp. Lieut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 23 October , 2010 Share Posted 23 October , 2010 Louise, the National Archives hold service papers for a 2/Lt JS Dalzell in WO 374/17694, these papers can only be viewed in person. It's possible that he didn't serve overseas so no medal entitlement and no MIC. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meridian Line Posted 24 October , 2010 Author Share Posted 24 October , 2010 Jon, thanks for that. I'm working up to a visit to TNA, so will add that to my "to do" list. Hopefully they also have lists of the South African Queens & Kings medals awards, Findmypast has nothing for him in their Boer War section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verrico2009 Posted 24 October , 2010 Share Posted 24 October , 2010 Louise, I've PM'd you as I just kept getting kicked out on previous attempts. Came across this in addition. As suggested in my PM, is it possible he was in a different regiment (maybe his injuries meant he was no longer infantry material)? Also, is it possible his experience led to the promotion? Name: J Dalzell Casualty Type: Wounded Casualty Date: 10 Dec 1899 Casualty Place: Stormberg Rank: Private Force: South Africa Field Force Regiment: Royal Irish Rifles Battalion: 2nd Battalion Number: 2397 This is the man with the QSA and KSA:- Name: DALZELL, J Rank: Private Soldier number: 4352 Unit: 7th (Queen's Own) Hussars Notes: [The National Archives WO100. The QSA and KSA campaign medal rolls.] [south African Field Force. JB Hayward & Sons] Dalziel. The Queen's South Africa (QSA) Medal Clasps: Relief of Kimberley, Paardeberg, Dreifontein, Johannesburg You'll note this man also seems to be referred to as "Dalziel":- Name: J Dalziel Casualty Type: Wounded Casualty Date: 28 Jan 1902 Casualty Place: Waterkloof Rank: Private Force: South Africa Field Force Regiment: 7th Hussars Number: 4352 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 24 October , 2010 Share Posted 24 October , 2010 Hopefully they also have lists of the South African Queens & Kings medals awards The rolls of the QSA and KSA are held on microfilm in the WO100 series at the National Archives. They are not the easiest things to search, but primarily because there is no central index. The rolls are arranged by regiment, so I am afraid you will need to determine the regiment before searching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meridian Line Posted 24 October , 2010 Author Share Posted 24 October , 2010 Verrico, Thanks for the input. I'm not sure whether a Cumbrian would join the Irish Rifles, but I suppose its not impossible. Definitely needs looking into. Chris, Thanks for the warning about the rolls, I'll need to be organised if I visit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 24 October , 2010 Share Posted 24 October , 2010 And since it's a good shot, a comparison of how the QSA/KSA ribbands taken with orthochromatic film appear in comparison with the actual ribband colours: http://postimage.org/image/hksce1qc/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meridian Line Posted 26 October , 2010 Author Share Posted 26 October , 2010 Another confirmation , many thanks Andrew. I'm now pretty certain he must be the J. Dalzell, soldier no. 4352, who was in the South Staffs & the 7th Hussars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meridian Line Posted 7 November , 2010 Author Share Posted 7 November , 2010 I just wanted to let everyone know who helped or took an interest in the post, that I've managed to find my man's records at Kew....and wow, what a find they were! There were about 4-5 J. Dalzell Officer records, so I ordered them all, & his was the second one I looked at. They consisted mainly of his application for a commission in 1916 into the Mechanical Transport Royal Army Service Corps, where he was already working as a civilian. His application was supported by a letter from the CO, plus (this is the really exciting part for me) a C.V. of his work/army career, with references from employers....so now I have his full history between 1891 & his death. He was in the 7th Hussars in the Boer War & was shot in the thigh, so was discharged out at the end of the war. I couldn't have managed without everyones help, so many thanks once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick ODwyer Posted 7 November , 2010 Share Posted 7 November , 2010 Just a long shot Louise but was he a relative of Joe Dalzell Paisley, also connected with Cumberland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verrico2009 Posted 7 November , 2010 Share Posted 7 November , 2010 Great news, Louise. Good to know his detailed records survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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