H troop manchester frontiersmen

[sabine72]

I started reading old wfa magazines( belgian branch) one article surprised me

British volenteers arrive on 16/10/1914 and help out the 3é lansiers for a few month's

they were known as canadians(dressed like mounted canadians) their captain was Nowell Henry canadian but all the others where from manchester.

thank's to them and the pictures they send back home to be published in the daily sketch,daily mirror, daily cronicle enz... the life of the belgian soldiers was made more comfortable. warm clothing was sent by the british people even sigarettes,to the belgian soldiers.

By the end of 1914 they were discharged why?the war office didn't like it?

well I would like to find out more about these guys

anyone having a clue where to start?

kind regards

sabine

[John_Hartley]

Hi Sabine

I'm from the Manchester area and I've never heard of these guys. It's possible there was some mention in the local newspapers - I've quickly read through the 1914 editions and I don't recall anything (but then, I was looking for specific information so may have missed things. Do you have any names of the men, other than the commander?

John

[Moonraker]

Manchester members of the irregular Legion of Frontiersmen were the first Britons to engage the enemy after they had linked up with the 3rd Belgium Lancers early in August 1914. The Legion had been set up in 1905 by Roger Pocock from "men for whom there is no post in the forces, they are spread all over the Empire - experienced scouts and craftsmen, who have fought in our wars and have the respect of all our great military leaders". I've a postcard showing the Legion's band at the Whit Carnival in Salisbury in 1910, its members wearing hats similar to those of Canadian Mounties and three displaying Boer War medals. During the Great War, the Legion evolved into the 25th Frontiersmen Battalion, Royal Fusiliers and served in German East Africa.

See

here

Moonraker

[Robert Dunlop]

Were any of these men killed prior to the BEF's action at Mons?

Robert

[Terry_Reeves]

This is specifically about the Manchester Troop:

http://www.frontiersmenhistorian.info/firstwar.htm

TR

[sabine72]

here ar a few names

allen cyril brigadier 38 years

anderson leonard 24 years

campbell john 23y

critchlow charles 21y

cowan william 28 y

davisson bertram 26y

dawson edward 26y

driver albert 23

everingham robin 20 y

guthrie norman 31y

harrison franck 23y

hepburn alexander 36y

hobson william 31y

lamb thomas 22y

lord david 22y

macnab john 37y

nicholls alfred 35y

rees loedkaby 28y

rennie wallace 23y

sandy-wunch t 22y

weaver john 24y

wood douglas 20y

Allen and campbell got wounded 18/10/1914 area st pieterskapelle

davisson got killed as an artillerie officier in 1917

everingham robin joined the 1é welsh horse yeomanry en died 10/12/1915 in gallipoli

in 1935 survivers came to belgium and met up with the 3é lancers

I just wonder why these men who came on their own had to leave belgium at the end of 1914, they didn't do anything wrong,

kind regards

sabine

[centurion]

See the following two posts from the old Landships forum

I think this unit may have been part of that formed by John Norton Griffiths Conservative MP for Wednesbury (near Birmingham). Just before the outbreak of war he issued the following advertisment

"With a view to working in unity if duty calls, all Africans, Australians, Canadians or other Britishers who served in either the Matabeleland, Mashonaland or South African War and who are not connected with any existing military or naval organisation and who would be desirous of serving their Empire again are requested to forward their names and addresseses with particulars etc, to Mr.J. Norton Griffiths M.P., 3 Central Buildings Westminster.

Mr Norton Griffiths commanded Scouts in the Matabeleland- Mashonaland war and served in a similar capacity in the Commander In Chief's (Lord Roberts') Heasdquarters staff in the South Arican War"

Several thousand responded and by 7th August 1914 the first unit of 500 men was paraded in London

Kitchener was at first not impressed but was later won round. The battalion was first officially called the Colonial Corps (I've not seen the term Frontiersmen') but later became the 2nd battalion King Edward's Horse.

Norton Griffiths (sometimes nick named Hell Fire Jack) may well have been one of the prototypes for John Buchan's Richard Hannay (39 Steps, Greenmantle, Mr Standfast etc). He had gone out to South Africa as a pennyless young man, had many adventures (some of which echo those in Buchan's novel Prester John)and founded a mining engineering company that made his fortune. He returned to England and founded a civil engineering company specialising in tunneling. At 42 he found himself in Belgium with the rank of major in the Colonial Corps. However as the war bogged down into trench warfare he become frustrated. His firm had worked on a number of sewer construction projects in Manchester and he recognised that the clay sub strata on parts of the Western Front was very similar to that in Manchester. In December 1914 he first suggested that tunneling companies be formed from Manchester clay kickers with the purpose of sinking mines under the German lines. These companies (who called themslves moles) eventually formed the nucleus for the Messines mining operation.

Centurion

__________________

aka Robert Robinson Always mistrust captions

Centurion: The info you give is correct - it was sewer-diggers from Manchester who were the first tunnelers on the Western Front - but it's a different story from the Frontiersmen. This episode is even weirder.

The Legion of Frontiersmen was a body of volunteer horsemen from those parts of the British Empire where horsemanship was a common skill. In 1904 they were formed by an Edwardian "adventurer" called Roger Pocock into a sort of international force dedicated to protecting the interests of the Empire (including keeping an eye out for possible insurrection). They became a sort of brotherhood, keeping in touch even when they moved to other countries. They were used unofficially by the War Office to do a bit of spying, and had many very famous men in their ranks - Captain Scott, Captain Oates, Ernest Shackleton, Erskine Childers, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Ridr Haggard, Jan Smuts, Edgar Wallace, and C. Aubrey Smith, to name but a few - and also attracted some dodgy characters of the type sometimes called "soldiers of fortune". It was very much an organisation of its time.

Shortly before the outbreak, they anticipated trouble with Germany and offered their services to the War Office. Accounts vary as to exactly what happened next. The dates are a bit contradictory and it might or might not have been in response to an appeal for help from King Albert of the Belgians, but what is certain is that about thirty Frontiersmen got together in Manchester. The Legion had an office on Market Street, which Centurion will know well. Forming a platoon, they headed south. Where they got 30 horses from in Manchester, I can't imagine; horses were generally used for pulling coal wagons or ice-cream carts. Anyway, it seems that they did.

Although the dates given range from June to August, they were definitely in Belgium before the BEF had set off for France. One account says that they offered their services to the French, but were turned away. They were certainly accepted by the Belgians, and took an apparently non-combatant part in the defence of Ostend, being referred to as The British Colonial Horse. They were attached to the Belgian 3rd Regiment of Lancers, under the command of an English speaking Belgian officer. On August 16th, 1914, they saw action against German troops, a week before the BEF's first action at Mons, thus becoming the first British Empire troops to join battle in the War. Two men were wounded.

King Albert visited them and supposedly made them honorary escorts. They are apparently still honoured by the 3rd Lancers to this day.

By 1915, when the Belgian Front had become static, they were tranferred to the British Army and their heroic period was over, but the Frontiersmen still exist, and I think I did them a disservice by suspecting them of being a bit sinister.

The dress uniform was fascinating, taking elements from throughout the Empire: a blue tunic with stand collar, modelled on the South African Police; a British Sam Browne belt; a Canadian-style stetson, nicknamed a "smasher", like the RCMP hat and similar to the New Zealand lemon-squeezer and the American Montana. The epaulettes were chain-mail!

There are a couple of possibly genuine photos of them, and some film at www.britishpathe.com of the platoon excercising their horses on the sands, probably near Folkestone.

Amazing story, right under my nose, and I'd never heard of it until the twilight of my years.

[sabine72]

In the article I have, it said they where here before that 18/10/1914 because there is a picture of 2 of the guys with a doctor( dr ormiston) and a nurse(lady lethbridge), it was after they helped putting wounded on ships that they volonteerd to help the 3th lancers. after the war their was contact several times in the 30's then in the 60's the 3th lancers were invited for the parade of the horse guards in whitehall.

on 20/10/1977 the frontiermen and wives were invited to belgium again

there is a museum in the citadel of namen for the 3th lancers were you can find a section dedicated to the frontiersmen.The belgians haven't forgotten about' their canadian' friends( for themen of the 3th lancers they were known as the canadians)

kind regards

sabine

[James H]

Sabine - that is fascinating stuff. I wrote the stuff that Centurion posted. I have been trying to find some names for the men of H Squadron. That's brilliant. Manchester Central Library has some archive Evening News articles about the LoF, but all before 1910, so nothing about their departure for France, unfortunately, so can't confirm the date. I had high hopes of that. Mostly to do with their meetings and charity events in the area - IIRC they had a big Field Day in Altrincham. Can't find my notes at the mo, but the local commander seems to have been a doctor from Middleton, Percy something, I think. I also believe Rochdale Library archives have some stuff on the LoF.

Is there any chance of a look at the article? I'm in Manchester, and might be able to track down some of the blokes. No guarantee they were local, of course, but one never knows.

Regards,

JH

[sabine72]

James,

I'll go up to my library tomorow( my archives are up side down at the moment might take me while) and scan the article for you and do some translations.

kind regards

sabine

[James H]

Much obliged. I'm OK with French and can just about get by with Flemish. Looking forward to it.

J

[sabine72]

James,

emails send it is all in flemish, started to translate, 3 pages finished so if you need help just let me know

kind regards

sabine

[Guest]

My Great Uncle was one of the Manchester troop (LOF) that served in Belgium. His name was Norman Guthrie. He later died in Belgium, serving with the Gordon Highlanders. All of the Manchester troop were later awarded a medal by the Belgium government but most had perished in the war, having been called up (or volunteered) for the British army once they had returned from serving with the 3rd Lancers in Belgium (Britain having then joined the war).