Battlefield Crosses

[OpsMajor]

Whilst out walking I entered a Redundant (dis-used) Church which had a Memorial to 3 chaps on the wall. Underneath was, what appeared to be, an original wooden cross which had marked the grave of one of them. It was approx 40ins x 15ins and on 'metal dymo tape' was printed his number, rank, name, unit (13 Rifle Bde) and, presumably, DOD 04Nov18.

Clearly with no intrinsic value but surely of importance and value to, e.g. a Regimental Museum, etc?

I've not come across one before but I'm sure others must have.

Mike

Ooops, forgot - and also on 'metal dymo tape' was the legend "GRU" which I presume is the Graves Registration Unit.

[deano]

Hi Mike, there is one here in a church in Sheffield, also one in a nearby village, and also one in another church here in Sheffield. There is an old thread on here somewhere that mentions them but i cant find it. The opinion in the thread was not to name the location as they get nicked! I have also seen a website that lists a lot of them, but again i cant remember which one! (i think it was Tom Morgans)apologies if not.

Dean.

[OpsMajor]

Dean

Thanks. You spotted my reluctance to name the Church - my fear was that it might get 'nicked'!

Mike

[Andy Wade]

There's one from Lt Gilbert Talbot's grave, in TocH upstairs in the 'chapel'.

Talbot House

[OpsMajor]

Andy

I saw that when I was in Talbot House last year. The one I have seen is not as splendid - the wood, although smooth, is very utilitarian, very much like cheap packing case wood.

Mike

[GrahamC]

This is the most I've seen - again location withheld.

If the church was 'redundant' as you say - it might be worth making enquiries to "rescue" the cross, before it gets totally lost. As you say, there is bound to be an alternate site that would value it.

[OpsMajor]

The Church is in a poor state of repair and I have serious concerns that the cross will 'disappear' (either via 'demolition' or being 'nicked') - it would be such a shame. I included the unit (13 Rifle Bde) in case someone with an interest would know of an appropriate home. Similarly there is the issue of any remaining family for this chap.

Mike

[spoons]

Why not contact the War Memorials Trust to see if they can get the memorials (including cross) safely re-homed?

War Memorials Trust

\Spoons

[OpsMajor]

Thanks Spoons - have emailed them.

I managed to get on to the CWGC site today and found my chap was buried in Gessines Cemetary, an extract of their info is;

LOCQUIGNOL COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION, in the middle of the Forest of Mormal, was made by a German medical unit and used by British units after the capture of the village on the 4 November 1918 [my chaps DOD]. It contained the graves of 142 German soldiers, later reburied at Le Cateau; one soldier from the United Kingdom buried by the enemy; and 24 soldiers from the United Kingdom buried by their comrades. LOUVIGNIES BRITISH CEMETERY was on the East side of the village of Le Quesnoy. It was made by the 13th Rifle Brigade in November 1918, and it contained the graves of 22 soldiers of that battalion and four others from the United Kingdom.

As with so many posts in this site one thing leads to another and I would now like to know more about what the 13 Rifle Bde were doing in that area just before the Armistice, etc. Should I move this to another thread (which?) or are any readers able to point me in the right direction?

Mike

Cemetery should be spelt Ghissignies!

[MBrockway]

I'm assuming here we're talking about a recovered grave marker that has been re-erected in the man's local church after an official stone CWGC headstone has been put over the man's grave in Flanders?

I would contact the RGJ/Rifles Museum in Winchester ...

Contact info for Royal Green Jackets (Rifles) Museum

The Royal Green Jackets and now The Rifles are the modern successor regiments to the Rifle Brigade.

It would also be worth contacting Forum Pal Andy Pay (stiletto_33853) who acts as custodian for a large archive of RB Great War material. He would give good impartial advice on how to proceed.

Cheers,

Mark

[OpsMajor]

Mark

Thanks - I will contact the Museum. How do I get 'stiletto' to read this thread and give me some advice?

Mike

[MBrockway]

Mark

Thanks - I will contact the Museum. How do I get 'stiletto' to read this thread and give me some advice?

Mike

I'll mention it to him.

Cheers,

Mark

[stiletto_33853]

Yikes,

A few thoughts, RGJ Museum is one but I would not hold too much hope on that front, also does not the memorial need caring for too with the two linked together. Is this redundant church in a village/Town/City and would another local church be prepared to care for not only this cross but the memorial you mention as well???? I say this as locally there are a couple of men mentioned on a few memorials as they were well known or had kin in surrounding areas, also I know of a few churches that have taken on such items when other churches have become redundant. Spoons suggestion of the War Memorials Trust is yet another good suggestion, so you have some good suggestions there.

Personally I would try the War Memorials Trust who might be able to guide you and it would alert them to this, and, whom might be in a position to assist in the placement of these items in the local area which is where they belong.

If you would care to PM me regarding this matter we might be able to pin down a little more regarding this RB man, lets hope so.

Andy

[OpsMajor]

Andy

Thanks. Please remind me how to PM you - haven't done it for a year!

Mike

[Andy Wade]

Andy

Thanks. Please remind me how to PM you - haven't done it for a year!

Mike

This is a good place to start:

[MBrockway]

Andy W - you're a star!

Cheers,

Mark

[Andy Wade]

Couldn't resist pointing out the bloomin' obvious.

Well it is to me, but then I deal with this stuff a lot.

I do appreciate that the forum software has changed and not everything is where it used to be. Actually I can't remember if that's where it was before. In fact I can't remember what the forum looked like before. In fact I can't remember what I had for tea. Should I be worried?

Answers on a postcard to...

[MBrockway]

Couldn't resist pointing out the bloomin' obvious.

Andy W,

Hope you don't mind, but I've taken the liberty of pasting your screenshot into this new Topic on the About this website sub-forum:

How do I PM a Forum Member? ... sending Personal Messages to another Pal

Cheers,

Mark

[OpsMajor]

Thanks for the guidance - I hadn't realised that was the new logo/icon for a PM.

Mike

[Andy Wade]

No problem, but I'd have done a neater version if I'd known!

I would have changed the red arrow for a Windows 'hand' cursor icon. No matter though.

Happy to help.

[MBrockway]

Thanks for the guidance - I hadn't realised that was the new logo/icon for a PM.

Mike

I'm certainly still finding my way around the new layout too

Cheers,

Mark

[OpsMajor]

I thought it would be appropriate, after all the help from Pals, to give an update of where we are. I have contacted all the 'organisations' that were suggested but, regrettably, nobody can do anything to preserve this memorial and cross.

Thanks

Mike

[Andy Wade]

What about the local British Legion? If they have a building that they meet in, then maybe they could provide a home for it.

How far are you willing to go to preserve these memorials?

I'd contact the owners of the building direct and ask permission from them to take them away to ensure they're saved. If you can go with the blessing of the British Legion it might add some weight to your request. Worth a thought anyway. Now would be a perfect time to do this with the Poppy Appeal running. I'd even consider the local newspapers. This story would be ideal for them at this time.

Some of ours are currently stored by the local council museum. Not the ideal situation as they're out of sight in a storeroom but at least they are saved for posterity. Finding a permanent home is not the prime objective at the moment. Even stored in your attic would be better than being sold on ebay to disappear, or worse, ending up in a builders skip.

[MBrockway]

Finding a permanent home is not the prime objective at the moment. Even stored in your attic would be better than being sold on ebay to disappear, or worse, ending up in a builders skip.

If it comes to that then either Andy or I would provide a temporary home for this rifleman's cross.

We have spoken about this off the Board and neither of us could bear the thought of such an important rifles item not being properly respected, or worse, being lost through our standing by inactive.

If you PM your contact details to one of us, we can see what we can do. For a start, we may be able to trace some relatives, but, given the vulnerability of the building, we appreciate the necessity of doing all that in a less public space than here on the Forum.

There may also be a branch of the RGJA in the locality that we may be able to mobilise.

Cheers,

Mark

[OpsMajor]

Andy/Mark

I was on holiday when I discovered the memorial/cross: it is in a very rural location about 15 miles outside Norwich. As you can see I live over a 100 miles from there! Would you know of anybody, or a RBL contact a bit nearer or shall I PM you the details and leave it in your capable hands?

Mike