Ebay auction

[firestep]

A friend of mine is of the opinion it could fetch £100 plus!

Is this 1914 Star something of a rarity because the recipient is shown as R.N.A.S.B.R. ?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300479245178&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

[ianw]

Yes - Royal Naval Auxiliary Sick Berth Reserve. I understand they were St John's ambulancemen ready to go to sea if needed. I understand there were 1015 of them in 1913 so probably not too many more in 1914 and how many were called to serve in 1914? Approx 3000 of them served in the Great War.

So this is indeed a pretty rare unit, it would seem.

[headgardener]

£100 is a low estimate, imho.

Very rare to find a 14 star to that unit. Must have accompanied the naval brigade at Antwerp, or been attached to the naval armoured cars unit. At a guess I'd say that less than 50 men would qualify for it.

Very rare, in case I didn't make that point before.

[horatio2]

At a guess I'd say that less than 50 men would qualify for it.

About 85 actually.

[firestep]

Thanks chaps, very interesting.

[ianw]

Did they qualify as Old Contemptibles?

[headgardener]

Did they qualify as Old Contemptibles?

I think the answer, technically, is 'No' because they weren't part of the BEF (defined as being British forces in F&F under the control of General French).

Although it does seem like a very arbitrary distinction to make. They could qualify for a 14 star (and a bar if appropriate) but not technically be a part of the BEF. So not technically an 'Old Contemptible'.

[ianw]

HG,

You are quite right to point out that they were not part of the BEF but what I was meaning is whether they qualified for the bar. I think there is a list of qualifying units. I wonder if these units that qualified for the bar but were not part of the BEF took any sort of pleasure from specifically not being OCs?

Regards Ian

[horatio2]

About 50% of the RNASBR qualified for the Clasp to the 1914 Star. Many more of the RND at Antwerp were so qualified.

[per ardua per mare per terram]

It sold for £191.99 reflecting its rarity. Collectors for the RN & St John as well as rarities wer probably interested and his number might have attracted others.

Name Arnold, Frederick

Official Number: M9494

Place of Birth: Brierfield, Lancashire

Date of Birth: 12 November 1890

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=7331115&queryType=1&resultcount=1

[per ardua per mare per terram]

I think the answer, technically, is 'No' because they weren't part of the BEF (defined as being British forces in F&F under the control of General French).

I'm not sure who General French was; do you mean Field Marshal Sir JDP French? As all the Antwerp expeditionary force came under the command of Sir Henry Rawlinson they were thus also under the command of Sir John French, which is one of the reasons the Star was extended to these naval units. Some naval units, such as the armoured cars (according to Charles Rumney Samson) were attached directly to French & Haig.

[headgardener]

I'm not sure who General French was; do you mean Field Marshal Sir JDP French? As all the Antwerp expeditionary force came under the command of Sir Henry Rawlinson they were thus also under the command of Sir John French, which is one of the reasons the Star was extended to these naval units. Some naval units, such as the armoured cars (according to Charles Rumney Samson) were attached directly to French & Haig.

Ouch! Yes, my error, I did mean Field Marshall French, rather than General French (as any fule kno.....).

As for the naval 1914 stars, didn't we sort this all out on THIS thread....? They weren't under the command of General French, and therefore didn't count as part of the BEF (according to the use of the term at that time). A separate order had to be issued extending entitlement to them.

edit; I said £100 was a low estimate.........