SAA Bandoleer markings

[4thGordons]

Just picked up an absolutely mint condition cotton bandoleer for 50rnds SAA

It appears to have originally been filled in June of 1918, again in/by Australia in 1943(?) and yet again in 1946.

can any additional information be gleaned from the markings? What is the rectangle? The purple cancellation ink conceals much of the Australian one but the WWI red is nice and clear.

Left to right on the bandoleer

Chris

[TonyE]

It is difficult to read the first one, but if it is the leftmost stamping, then I would think it was the first and that it is not 1943 (although it looks like that). Also, I would not expect to see "Australia" stamped at that date. Is it possible that it is 1918 or even 1913? If it IS either 1913 or very early 1918 then it will be Mark VI ball and made at CAC. (Australia did not start making Mark VII until February 1918)

The other two are easy. The 1918 one was Mark VII ammunition made at the Colonial Ammunition Company (CAC), Melbourne, which became the Ammunition Factory Footscray when the Government bought it in 1927. The 1946 one was Mark VII ammunition made at the No.2 Factory at Footscray which became operational in 1940 and used the "MG" code. This had nothing to do with machine guns, as the Australian small arms ammunition factories were coded MF, MG, MH, MQ, MS and MW.

REgards

TonyE

[shippingsteel]

... as the Australian small arms ammunition factories were coded MF, MG, MH, MQ, MS and MW.

Regards

TonyE

And Lithgow was coded MA.?? Which stands for .....??

Seriously TonyE, does anyone know the answer to that.?

Cheers, S>S

[TonyE]

I do not know the answer, although I have my theories. When Lithgow opened in 1912 there were no other government plants since the ammunition producer CAC was privately owned. Could "MA" mean "Manufactory Australia" in the same way that Enfield was once known as the Royal Manufactory? Note that on that early bandolier the origin is stamped as "Australia"

The other codes have a logic in most cases. MF is Footscray, and when the second plant opened there in 1940 the original factory changed to MF1 and the new factory was MF2. This did not last long and it was changed to MG, presumably because "G" follows "F". When Hendon opened it was "MH", Salisbury is "MS" and Welshpool is "MW".The one that I cannot sort out is Rocklea which used "MQ". Maybe you can help with that. Oh, and of course Orange was "MO".

A bit off topic but slightly linked to WWI.

Regards

TonyE

[shippingsteel]

Thanks for your thoughts TonyE. I think the most common theory is the MA stands for Munitions Australia but like many things the evidence has been lost over time leaving everyone still guessing. I may have the answer for your MQ query though - Rocklea is in Queensland (state) so that explains the letter Q being used.

Cheers, S>S

[4thGordons]

Oh, and of course Orange was "MO".

Regards

TonyE

Bit unfair as he is off to sun himself for a while and can't respond - but wasn't the abbreviation for Orange OA (Orange Arsenal?)....certainly by WWII anyway.

Chris

[shippingsteel]

Yes indeed, does make you wonder exactly which rare and endangered calibres are to be found lurking in some old disused Cuban military arsenal warehouse.??

Cheers, S>S

[shippingsteel]

Been taking another look at this thread. Obviously TonyE has let the team down badly, so I guess we'll all just have to take up the slack now, won't we.!

Chris, you asked about the rectangle shape in your first post - I believe it is just the symbol used to denote the Mark VII ammunition.

In your first photo can you make out what the letters are in the very bottom line. If you can decipher what that marking is it will probably help with working out what the actual date is.?

Thats a thought, the absence of the rectangular symbol in that initial stamp may indicate that the ammunition contained is NOT the Mark VII and so probably a stamping from an earlier period.?

And BTW the OA code is for the Orange workshop/factory but the A does not stand for Arsenal. All the smaller sattelite factories that sprang up around Lithgow took on the A part of the Lithgow MA code. These were essentially just feeder factories that supplied components to Lithgow for final assembly. ( I think Orange may have done some complete rifles later in WW2.?) The towns of Orange, Forbes, Bathurst and Wellington are all situated fairly close to Lithgow so they decided to decentralise the process and set up the workshops in the different localities where they could source the necessary workforce. These workshops then took on the codes of OA, FA, BA and WA respectively.

Cheers, S>S

[John Thorne]

I can't add a lot to this, but I can make a quick comment on that rectangle. It certainly predates Mk. VII, as I have the same mark on an 1899 dated 10 round paper packet of Mk. IV, and on a 1904 dated packet of Mk. II.

[4thGordons]

I can't add a lot to this, but I can make a quick comment on that rectangle. It certainly predates Mk. VII, as I have the same mark on an 1899 dated 10 round paper packet of Mk. IV, and on a 1904 dated packet of Mk. II.

Thanks John

I think (from an earlier thread on labels) it might be a packaging indicator of the "explosive" nature of the contents (a bit like a HazMat sticker).

When TonyE gets back I am sure we'll find out.

Chris