SOLDIERS OF THE DOMINIONS

[Dave_59]

Why are Australian and Canadian soldiers MIC details not in the National Archives. I now they can be obtained from there respective government records but they were awarded the medals by king George V, So surely they should be included in our MIC archives. Any suggestions?

thanks

dave

[Guest dinkidi]

G'day Dave

It doesn't answer the question, but I think New Zealand would admit to being a Dominion, but Australia would not.

ooRoo

Pat

[terryb95]

Discussions between Australian and British representatives led to adoption by the British Government of an act to constitute the Commonwealth of Australia late in 1900. The Colonial Secretary, Joseph Chamberlain, nearly derailed the whole process by insisting that British courts retain their jurisdiction over Australia. The Australians eventually reluctantly agreed to this. Queen Victoria of the United Kingdom gave her royal assent to the act on July 9 creating the Commonwealth and thus uniting the separate colonies on the continent under one federal government. (B)The act came into effect on January 1, 1901(

[terryb95]

To follow on with the above That made KG V the king of Australia.

[Guest dinkidi]

creating the Commonwealth and thus uniting the separate colonies on the continent under one federal government.

G'day Terry

Commonwealth? Yes. Dominion? Well?

Think NZ went for that about 1907.

No dispute about the King & Country, or King & Empire.

Re the above quote, Any thoughts about the poor old Taswegians AKA Vandermanians?

ooRoo

Pat

[Dave_59]

So wasnt Aus still a dominion?

[mordac]

So wasnt Aus still a dominion?

Hi Dave:

Technically, Australia was a Dominion.

The following is from the Word iQ Encyclopedia:

"A Dominion is a wholly self-governing or virtually self-governing state of the British Empire or British Commonwealth, particularly one which reached that stage of constitutional development in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Prior to attaining Dominion status these states have always been a Crown colony, under direct rule from Britain and/or a self-governing colony, or they have been formed from groups of such colonies. (Note however, that the phrase Her Majesty's dominions (small d) is a legal and constitutional term used to refer to all the realms and territories of the Sovereign, whether independent or not.)

The term "Dominion" is now mostly used only in a historical sense. Many of the distinctive characteristics which once pertained only to Dominions are now shared by other states in the Commonwealth, whether they are republics, self-governing colonies or Crown colonies. Even in a historical sense the differences between self-governing colonies and Dominions have often been formal rather than substantial. Nonetheless Dominion remains a correct term for an independent country where the British monarch is officially represented by a Governor-General.

Canada, which did not include Newfoundland at the time, received Dominion status upon the confederation of the Province of Canada, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia in 1867. Canadians wanted to call their nation the Kingdom of Canada. However, Americans, especially the yellow press in New York, railed against the idea of a monarchy in North America. Since the United States had recently demonstrated its military prowess in the American Civil War and still had an enormous military infrastructure in place, the British took these complaints very seriously. To calm the Americans, the British government successfully resorted to a diplomatic ruse. It explained to Americans that their fears had no foundation because Canada was to become a dominion rather than a kingdom. It then told the Canadians that Dominion meant the same as kingdom. As Canada was the first and archetypical Dominion of the Empire, all additional colonies that achieved this status were also called dominions. Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa, with their large populations of European descent, were sometimes collectively referred to as the “White Dominions”.

Although the term dominion has rarely been used in Australia, it achieved Dominion status with the federation of its six self-governing colonies as the Commonwealth of Australia, in 1901. New Zealand, which chose not to take part in Australian Federation, first became a Dominion in 1907 (as did Newfoundland, according to some sources); the newly-created Union of South Africa in 1910; and the Irish Free State (later Éire) in 1922. All retained the British monarch as head of state, represented locally by a governor-general appointed in consultation with the Dominion government. The Irish Free State, led by W.T. Cosgrave was the first Dominion to appoint a non-British, non-aristocratic Governor-General, when Timothy Michael Healy took the position in 1922. In 1930, the Australian PM, James Scullin, reinforced the right of the overseas Dominions to appoint native-born Governors-General, when he appointed Sir Isaac Isaacs, against the wishes of the opposition and officials in London.

Newfoundland was accorded (or re-accorded) Dominion status by the Statute of Westminster in December 1931, but self-government was suspended two years later, and the territory became a province of Canada in 1949. Later members of the Commonwealth gained independence not under the Statute of Westminster but by their own respective independence acts. The United Kingdom and its component parts never aspired to the title of Dominion, remaining anomalies within the network of free and independent equal members of the Empire and Commonwealth."

Garth

[Guest dinkidi]

G'day All

Never said Oz wasn't a Dominion, just that NZ Canada etc seemed happy enough to wear it as their official title. The Australians [including the 'non-continental Tasmanians] preferred Commonwealth. The AIF were happy enough to be referred to as Empire Troops, and when that term got to be politically incorrect, the Bosses reckoned it was a good idea to build on the Aussie kudos & call the whole outfit British Commonwealth.

www.chogm.org tells the history.

Sorry to hi-jack your question Dave! I tried hard to resist the chance to push a particular gripe that "Colonials" were quite welcome as part of the British Army providing they did what they were told & didn't claim recognition for any results.

A current example is the as yet unresolved question of "who fired the 1st British gun" But the devil made me do it.

Good luck with your projects

Pat

[Blackblue]

The view of one Australian......

My relatives who served in WW1 and WW2, although foremost Australians, were also extremely proud to serve as members of the 'British Commonwealth'. I am also a proud Australian...and just as proud of this heritage. It is a simple fact that Australia was once a British 'dominion'. This is part of Australia's history and as far as I'm concerned it should be embraced rather than denied.

To try and answer the original question.......although part of the Commonwealth and providing troops for service with a wider British Army Australia, Canada, New Zealand etc. also provided military forces recruited independently of the British Army....namely the the AIF, CEF, NZEF etc. The records were kept on an individual basis by those forces rather than centrally by the Commonwealth Government. I would guess that responsibility for the issue of service medals etc. was delegated by the British Government on this basis.

Regards

Tim D