German ID tag

[grantmal]

Found this ID tag among my great-grandfather's (11th Battalion AIF) WW1 souvenirs.

Some of the numbers are difficult to see, but it appears to read:

Paul Genske

Harmelsdorf Dt Grone. 9.6.9

R.J. R.49. 12.K. 633.

Any info on Genske, his Regiment, etc would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Grant

[Robert Dunlop]

Grant, I can't add very much. Paul Genske appears to have been in the 12th Company of the 49th Reserve Infantry Regiment (the 'J' will be an 'I' for Infanterie IMHO). The regiment was part of the 3rd Reserve Division, which transferred to the Western Front in May of 1917. The division was active in the Third Battle of Ypres. In August, it operated as an Eingreifdivision for counter-attacks, as mentioned in Jack Sheldon's book 'The German Army at Passchendaele'. The division was relieved in September but was heavily engaged again in October.

Robert

[Robert Dunlop]

Grant, 11th Battalion AIF were involved at least a couple of times in Third Ypres. I haven't checked the full details but McCarthy's day-by-day account notes their involvement in the Battle of Menin Road. I don't think this coincides with RIR 49 being in or near the line, based on the movements of the parent division. October 1917 looks like it might be the timeframe. More information will be needed to confirm this initial thought.

Robert

[grantmal]

Robert,

Thanks so much for your replies. I should have given more details, sorry.

Grandpa, 7705 W A Chester, was gassed in a training accident in UK in late 1917,

and he only reached France in Sept.1918, after the 11th Battalion had finished its

'fighting' war. His diary mentions the battalion being quartered at Epehy & Bohain just before and after the Armistice,

and some German dead lying unburied. I always presumed he 'found' his souvenirs among those poor *******.

There were also some shoulder patches (184) and a belt buckle among his things.

I'll return with some more details shortly.

Thanks again,

Grant

[Robert Dunlop]

Thanks, Grant. The 3rd Reserve Division fought in Marne salient during the Battle of Soissons (according to the 'Histories of Two Hundred and Fifty-One Divisions of the German Army Which Participated in the War 1914-1918', which is a source that must be considered with great caution). It then 'came into the line east of Chevisy on September 2. The British attack on the Somme of September 12 [1918] engulfed the division, which lost 1,300 prisoners'. My guess would be that this is the action in which Paul Genske was killed (presuming this was how his tag came to be found). I can't find a reference to Chevisy in Google. I wonder if it is a misspelling of Cherisy, which is about 1 hour's drive from Bohain. Not within easy walking distance. It will take more detail from the RIR 49. history to sort this out (if one exists).

Robert

[Jack Sheldon]

Grant

Tricky, very tricky, to add anything useful. By that late stage of the war, the German army was falling apart so, generally speaking, the only reliable source of information is a regimental history. Unfortunately, that of RIR 49 from Pomerania was never written and I do not have the correct sections for Gren R 2 or Fus R 34, so I cannot check exactly where they were in October 1918, though it would appear that 3rd Res Div moved north into Flanders and finished the war there, having been in action in front of the Hindenburg Line for three weeks in September.

You mention that there were shoulder titles from IR 184 from 183rd Inf Div as well. Well, that is another nightmare. The detailed regimental history Vierzig Monate Westfront was never completed. All we have is Part 1 and a very abbreviated expanded chronology for the rest of the war. To add to the difficulties, it was effectively fought out by 10 September after August battles on the Somme and more recent fighting near La Bassee. It was withdrawn from the line and its manpower split up, along with the remainder of 183rd Inf Div, whose surviving troops went to boost 7th Inf Div. IR 184 was broken up as follows: 1st Bn, along with 100 men of 3rd Bn to IR 165, forming a new 1st Bn IR 165. 5th Coy IR 184 sent small reinforcements to IR 26 and IR 165 and so it goes on. Others went to IR 393. Some companies of IR 184 were redesignated as complete companies of their 'new' regiments, others absorbed. IR 26 has a great history in several volumes, but I do not have that for 1918, IR 393 has no history and, from an examination of that of IR 165, it is evident that the reconstituted 7th Inf Div fought on the Aisne between Seuil and Givry in that October.

If I had to guess, therefore, I should suggest that your great granddfather was picking over a September 1918 battlefield in or around the Hindenburg Line when he recovered these items, either lying around or off bodies. Because of the geographical separation, the IR 184 items remain a particular mystery, unless he found them at a different date, or swapped them with someone. If your dates and information about his battalion are correct, it could well be that they had been given the grisly task of clearing up the battlefield - Not that Genske has a known grave, if he was indeed killed during the fighting there.

Jack

[grantmal]

Thanks very much Jack and Robert for your detailed replies. From what I can work out, grandpa spent his time training with the 11th Bn near L'Etoile (Pont Remy/Longpre area) in October 1918 before their move forward at the beginning of November. They reached Epehy on the 11th, and then marched about between Mazinghien and Bohain, finally leaving the former on Nov 23 for Beugnies and ultimately Chatelet in Belgium.

WA Chester: “….We stayed at Bohain a few days longer then marched to a town called Mazinghien. We stopped there about a week then marched back again to Bohain. It was all march now as the railways were all blown up by the Huns. Everywhere you look was ruins and desolation. The French civilians had just started to come back to their homes again, and I think there’s two men, a woman, and two girls in our town. Poor devils, what a homecoming for them. Here and there were dead Germans who were overlooked by their comrades in their hurried flight back into Belgium. Shells and guns everywhere. What a mess this place is in. It will take years to rebuild these towns again.”

The shoulder patches are the worse for wear:

The "In Treue Fest" belt buckle is (I believe) from a Bavarian unit.

I'd be grateful for any suggestions on how to confirm the fate of Paul Genske. I searched the Volksbund database, but the only Paul Genske there was killed in WW2. There are various archives in Poland and Germany with Pomeranian records, but I was hoping there was an easier way...

Thanks again,

Grant

[trenchtrotter]

It is feasable Genske survivied and was later killed in WW2. What age was the WW2 Genske...do you know?

NB the left hand shoulder strap has possible blood stain. I say possible because discolouration could be due to other factors.

Regards

TT

[CROONAERT]

It is feasable Genske survivied and was later killed in WW2. What age was the WW2 Genske...do you know?

Obergefreiter Paul Genske...born at Quoossen, Kreis Bartenstein, Altpreussen on 20th May 1920, died at Kositschewo, Belarus on 29th January 1944.

It's definately not him!

dave

[grantmal]

The Paul Genske killed in 1944 was only born in 1920; although their home-towns were some distance apart, both men hailed from East Prussia (now Poland). Maybe the second Paul Genske was named after his dead relative?

I always presumed it was a bloodstain on the left shoulder strap. Also interesting is how faded the numbering is on the right strap compared to the left...perhaps different uniforms?

Good on you,

Grant

Beat me to it, Dave.

Edited 14 September , 2010 by grantmal

[CROONAERT]

Grant... is there any detail stamped on the back of the disc?

[grantmal]

Grant... is there any detail stamped on the back of the disc?

Dave, nothing on the back, unfortunately.

[atcase]

Hi Grant ,

the difference in colouring is probally due to natural fading i.e. one placed on top of each other in sunlight ??

Ashley