egbert Posted 10 September , 2010 Author Share Posted 10 September , 2010 (edited) I just realize: when Lt Drangmeister died at 18:30 hrs on 22.7.1915, the picture in post #1 catches him some 7-10 hrs bevor he was killed in action. Very likely the last image showing him alive. Edited 13 September , 2010 by egbert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 12 September , 2010 Author Share Posted 12 September , 2010 This picture (courtesy of Dragon) of Bärenstall cemetery after the war shows the fading state of the crosses and consequently the fading inscriptions with names virtually wiped out. This is the reason why names were wrongly copied at the occasion of the 1920s reburials by the French authorities. It is very much understandable why individual named graves of soldiers like Lt Drangmeister's were reburied into the mass grave.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 12 September , 2010 Share Posted 12 September , 2010 Wehrmann II Balthasar Lackerschmid [sic] ... Killed in action on Lingekopf at 7pm on 22 July 1915 by artillery shell. Buried on Lingekopf. "According to information from bay. Landwehr-Sanitätskompagnie Nr.1, his body was transferred to Waldfriedhof Drei Ähren". This is an early card showing the cemetery at Drei Ähren - Trois Épis in French. Card from my collection. And now it is a rather special place: and My photos. September, 2008. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 12 September , 2010 Share Posted 12 September , 2010 Egbert, thank you for this most interesting thread. Your remark about the possible last image of him is very poignant. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 12 September , 2010 Share Posted 12 September , 2010 Two more images from the immediate post war period. They reinforce Egbert's comment about the difficulties faced in making accurate reburials. This is from album number 3 in the Souvenirs de Guerre series produced at the time by Weick, which records a set of images of this devastated landscape. From my copy of the album. The next is from a set of 15 postcards produced as a souvenir of le Linge. From my collection. (I have hundreds of these images which I'm very happy to share, but have cost me a lot to acquire over time, so I would appreciate it if people didn't copy them without asking me first.) Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 13 September , 2010 Author Share Posted 13 September , 2010 Egbert, thank you for this most interesting thread. Your remark about the possible last image of him is very poignant. Gwyn Gwyn, first of all thank you for the postcards. I have never seem them before and they are phantastic. Second -why are you always the only one on the forum realizing the drama around specific pictures, like the one you are referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 13 September , 2010 Author Share Posted 13 September , 2010 Is the picture in post #30 Bärenstall cemetery? I see the pyramid that has been relocated in the 20s to present Bärenstall cemetery. Does the pyramid also come from a temporary cemetery from the Linge slopes itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 13 September , 2010 Share Posted 13 September , 2010 Good afternoon Egbert (and Gwyn), The aspect of it been almost certainly the last photo of Lt Drangmester is very emotive. Egbert, perhaps you could amend your post no.26 to read 18.30 and not 06.30 (as it was 6.30pm) to avoid any confusion, as in post no.1 the photo refers to an attack "at noon" on 22 July. The photo has added poignancy, highlightimg the error on the modern mass grave, the photo been dated after his "death" It is good that the VdK are able to act so swiftly on your notification, well done for correcting the error and further ensuring that the fallen are remembered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 13 September , 2010 Author Share Posted 13 September , 2010 Thanks Steve! I also have changed to "military time" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 13 September , 2010 Share Posted 13 September , 2010 Is the picture in post #30 Bärenstall cemetery? I see the pyramid that has been relocated in the 20s to present Bärenstall cemetery. Does the pyramid also come from a temporary cemetery from the Linge slopes itself? I'm sorry, I don't know. I'll look closely at the pictures, and think. As I've promised, I'll send high res versions. The drama I see? I have similar photos of early French cemeteries in this catastrophically wasted landscape into which thousands of human bones have been poured. Somehow, under this high, grey photographic sky, it has been bleached. It is uncompromisingly silent as far as the end of the earth. I have pictures of visitors, many women, who are there because they need to try to revive the scenes that their men knew. In the bleak finality of the landscape, they can see the finality of death. Some of the bodies have been lifted and transferred to embryonic cemeteries and the soil left rough. The wreckage has been blanketed in mud and the wire partially sucked under the surface. There is nothing living at all to see, not a tree, not a road, not even a rabbit. The defiled earth is as dead as eyes. You can almost see the women's sad eyes. I wonder how torn and anguished the photographer felt as he looked through the viewfinder. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 14 September , 2010 Author Share Posted 14 September , 2010 Unteroffizier der Landwehr II Friedrich Struckmeier Born Moorburg, Kreis Harburg near Hamburg, on 23 October 1881, merchant resident in Munich (Orffstr. 11/II). Married to Elsa, 2 children. Son of August Struckmeier (assistant customs officer) and Katharina, of Frankfurt/Main. Killed in action on Lingekopf at 9:30am on 22 July 1915 by artillery shell. Buried on Lingekopf. Unteroffizier der Landwehr I Lorenz Ullinger (Not to be confused with Lorenz Allinger of 10. Kompagnie, who transferred to the Snowshoe Battalion in May 1915!) Born Menning, Bezirksamt Ingolstadt, on 23 March 1885, railway worker resident in Munich (Guldeinstr. 39/II). Married to Franziska, no children. Son of Max Ullinger (smallholder) and Anna (nee Weichenrieder), of Menning. Killed in action on Lingekopf at 1pm on 22 July 1915 by hand grenade (head). Buried on Lingekopf. Adrian One step forward, two steps back, the red tape hit: VdK writes that they cannot accept the ancestry data for the 2 above mentioned soldiers as they have to be officially verified first. Well, shall I shout them back "who the f"§$ can verify that after lets say 90 years when there is nothing in German official archives." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apwright Posted 15 September , 2010 Share Posted 15 September , 2010 Egbert, What do they mean by "officially verified"? They already have the names on their list, according to your post #20. The Ancestry data is from a photograph of a Bavarian Archive document! Bayerisches Hauptstaatsarchiv - Band 00278-04011. Infanterie > Band 03491-03862. Landwehr-Infanterie-Regimenter > Band 03491-03524. Bayer. Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 1 (Augsburg) > 3513. Kriegstammrolle: 8. Kompanie (Ancestry image no. 54 of 402 - both men are on the same page, consecutive entries, so they're not hard to find.) Do they have to send someone to Munich to make sure that Ancestry didn't make it up? Verdammter Amtsschimmel! Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 15 September , 2010 Author Share Posted 15 September , 2010 Yes "Amtsschimmel"! They used the wording "amtlich Verifiziert". I just wrote them again with your archive information. Lets see their reaction..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 15 September , 2010 Share Posted 15 September , 2010 I can't help you, Egbert, but I wish you good luck cutting the red tape. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 16 September , 2010 Author Share Posted 16 September , 2010 Ok Gwyn then -I try to cut the red tape. I received another email from Vdk which was indeed very positive: 1. They have accepted the scans from Adrian and already updated their data according to the Kriegsstammrolle-scan for the two listed soldiers. 2. If Adrian can post scans from Kriegsstammrolle for all the other dead, identified on the crosses and listed here in the thread, they will update their database as well. They simply could not accept the ancestry data without having supporting written data ( they have no access to ancestry data). As I said, we can shorten the update procedure at VdK substantially, when the other soldier's data, listed in the Kriegsstammrolle will be conveyed to them. All in all a great communication with VdK and suppportive to the subject matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apwright Posted 16 September , 2010 Share Posted 16 September , 2010 PM sent Egbert! I need your email address. In looking again, I found a third entry for Drangmeister (which I didn't see before as it is indexed Drangmester), which states he was killed by a shrapnel wound to the chest at 6:30 in the morning - so of the three mentions, one gives no time, one says 6:30pm and one says 6:30am. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 16 September , 2010 Author Share Posted 16 September , 2010 06:30a.m. is a mistake as he was still alive at noon when the attack started Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 16 September , 2010 Share Posted 16 September , 2010 Good for you, Egbert and Adrian. Hope this succeeds. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 4 October , 2010 Author Share Posted 4 October , 2010 Ok Gwyn then -I try to cut the red tape. I received another email from Vdk which was indeed very positive: 1. They have accepted the scans from Adrian and already updated their data according to the Kriegsstammrolle-scan for the two listed soldiers. 2. If Adrian can post scans from Kriegsstammrolle for all the other dead, identified on the crosses and listed here in the thread, they will update their database as well. They simply could not accept the ancestry data without having supporting written data ( they have no access to ancestry data). As I said, we can shorten the update procedure at VdK substantially, when the other soldier's data, listed in the Kriegsstammrolle will be conveyed to them. All in all a great communication with VdK and suppportive to the subject matter. Today I got the email I was waiting for: on the basis of Adrians scans, the VdK has accepted the data and has already corrected their files. At the occasion of their next data base upgrade all new data will be visible online. Good job Adrian, a couple of forgotten soldiers have gotten their bio corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apwright Posted 4 October , 2010 Share Posted 4 October , 2010 Great news, Egbert! Well done to you for your persistence in getting these men the recognition they deserve. I'll be opening a bottle of Bavarian beer this evening in memory of the valiant Leutnant Albert Drangmeister and his Kameraden of 8. Kompanie, bayerisches Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment Nr.1 Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 4 October , 2010 Author Share Posted 4 October , 2010 Great news, Egbert! Well done to you for your persistence in getting these men the recognition they deserve. I'll be opening a bottle of Bavarian beer this evening in memory of the valiant Leutnant Albert Drangmeister and his Kameraden of 8. Kompanie, bayerisches Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment Nr.1 Adrian I will do the same right now. Cheers and Prost to a job well done. I raise my stone mug to Lt Drangmeister and his men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 4 October , 2010 Share Posted 4 October , 2010 Great result, Adrian and Egbert - enjoy your beers ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 4 October , 2010 Share Posted 4 October , 2010 A thread like this is precisely why I joined and enjoy the GWF. Well done to all. -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 30 October , 2010 Author Share Posted 30 October , 2010 This picture (courtesy of Dragon) of Bärenstall cemetery after the war shows the fading state of the crosses and consequently the fading inscriptions with names virtually wiped out. This is the reason why names were wrongly copied at the occasion of the 1920s reburials by the French authorities. It is very much understandable why individual named graves of soldiers like Lt Drangmeister's were reburied into the mass grave.... Here is another proof of the sad condition of post war Bärenstall cemetery. The inscriptions are barely visible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 5 October , 2011 Author Share Posted 5 October , 2011 quote:" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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