Middlesex Regiment

[sazza]

Hello

i am new to this forum and am in search of information on a great Uncle who died 21/01/1916 in Flanders. I am looking to find information on how he died and if there are any diaries , letters etc.

Could anyone guide me in the right direction?

Thanks in advance

Sarah

[nthornton1979]

Hi Sarah,

There are some clever people on this forum but they're not that clever

Do you have any details on your Uncle ?

I'm not sure if you are aware but each Regiment had a number of Battalions. In order to find out where he was we need to find his Battalion.

If you can post his name on here that will give us a start. We can then check the Commonwealth Website for further details.

Cheers

Neil

[sazza]

Hi Neil

I was really looking for website info on where to search.

The name is Sidney Thompson number 7019 Middlesex Regiment 4th Batallion. died at age 21 yrs. we have been on the Commonwealth Graves website and found where he is buried, but I can't seem to find anything on what was going on at that time when he died. It would be interesting to see if there are any newspaper entries/letters etc.

Thanks for your help

Sarah

Hi Sarah,

There are some clever people on this forum but they're not that clever

Do you have any details on your Uncle ?

I'm not sure if you are aware but each Regiment had a number of Battalions. In order to find out where he was we need to find his Battalion.

If you can post his name on here that will give us a start. We can then check the Commonwealth Website for further details.

Cheers

Neil

[nthornton1979]

No problem Sarah, I've only just realised you posted in the 'Document' section.

I'm not sure if there's anything online but I do have the WW1 'Middlesex Regiment history' book which states the following :-

"The 4th Middlesex ushered in the New Year in an unfortunate manner. The Battalion had taken over front-line trenches in the Armentieres sector on the night of 31st December - 1st January, and at 1 am, a 'cutting -out' enterprise was carried out by the 23rd Division (on the flank of the 21st Division) with the result that the trenches of the Middlesex were heavily shelled by the enemy, the Battalion losing 5 other ranks killed and 30 wounded. Towards dawn the shelling died down, and at daybreak things were once more normal : but it was a bad beginning.

Apart from the daily round of trench warfare the Diaries of the 4th Middlesex contain nothing of outstanding interest during January and February and the first 2 weeks of March, 1916."

I suppose what it means is there was no attacks or raids etc but even with the daily routine of trench warfare there would have been casualites. Your great Uncle could have been killed by a German shell or sniper. Aswell as killed in No-Man's-Land on a working party or patrol etc.

The war diary for the day will probably give the number of casualties sustained but may or may not give the cause. You could try requesting on forum if anyone has the war diary entry for that date. If not then a researcher could look it up for you for a small fee or it may be worth checking The National Archives' onlne. They hold some diaries online and are downloadable for a small fee. (£3.50 I think)

Neil

[sazza]

Thank you Neil, you've been really helpful.

He is buried in Armentieres which ties up with what you have said.

Will take your advice.

Sarah

No problem Sarah, I've only just realised you posted in the 'Document' section.

I'm not sure if there's anything online but I do have the WW1 'Middlesex Regiment history' book which states the following :-

"The 4th Middlesex ushered in the New Year in an unfortunate manner. The Battalion had taken over front-line trenches in the Armentieres sector on the night of 31st December - 1st January, and at 1 am, a 'cutting -out' enterprise was carried out by the 23rd Division (on the flank of the 21st Division) with the result that the trenches of the Middlesex were heavily shelled by the enemy, the Battalion losing 5 other ranks killed and 30 wounded. Towards dawn the shelling died down, and at daybreak things were once more normal : but it was a bad beginning.

Apart from the daily round of trench warfare the Diaries of the 4th Middlesex contain nothing of outstanding interest during January and February and the first 2 weeks of March, 1916."

I suppose what it means is there was no attacks or raids etc but even with the daily routine of trench warfare there would have been casualites. Your great Uncle could have been killed by a German shell or sniper. Aswell as killed in No-Man's-Land on a working party or patrol etc.

The war diary for the day will probably give the number of casualties sustained but may or may not give the cause. You could try requesting on forum if anyone has the war diary entry for that date. If not then a researcher could look it up for you for a small fee or it may be worth checking The National Archives' onlne. They hold some diaries online and are downloadable for a small fee. (£3.50 I think)

Neil

[kenf48]

Sidney J Thompson, from Ponders End went to France on the 15th January 1915.

Soldiers Died in Great War and CWGC give date of death as 24th January 1916, he was killed in action. Also killed that day was R Baker Pte 8928 4th Bn, given the numbers probably mates.

So it would seem no major battle just the 'daily hate'. Their resting place indicates the Battalion was still in the Armentieres sector. Though probably on a later rotation to that referred to by Neil above

Ken

Incidentally welcome to the forum but this is posted in the Virtual library, not everyone will look in here and it may be more appropriate in 'Soldiers'

Have you looked at the Long Long Trail Researching a Soldier http://www.1914-1918.net/grandad/grandad.htm as recommended in other parts of the Forum?

[KevinBattle]

Sarah, for what it might be worth, it does seem as if there were daily attritional losses of the type described by Neil, sniper, shelling, etc etc

These of his colleagues also died around that time (24th Jan, not 21st) (thanks to Geoff's Search Engine):

001 ALLCHIN W 9765 C COY, 4TH BN 26/01/1916 MIDDLESEXREGIMENT

002 BAKER R 8928 4TH BN 24/01/1916 MIDDLESEX REGIMENT

003 HINDE AJ 8953 4TH BN 27/01/1916 MIDDLESEX REGIMENT

004 KELL CB 1712 4TH BN 26/01/1916 MIDDLESEX REGIMENT

005 LEDAIN H 6775 4TH BN 26/01/1916 MIDDLESEX REGIMENT

006 MARKS F 6374 4TH BN 25/01/1916 MIDDLESEX REGIMENT

007 MARLER WJ 8104 4TH BN 25/01/1916 MIDDLESEX REGIMENT

008 O'CONNOR AE L/14903 4TH BN 25/01/1916 MIDDLESEXREGIMENT

009 THOMPSON SJ 7019 4TH BN 24/01/1916 MIDDLESEX REGIMENT

The CWGC Cemetery information for Cite BonJean states:

Armentieres was occupied by the 4th Division on 17 October1914 and it remained within the Allied lines until its evacuation ahead of theGerman advance on 10 April 1918, after a prolonged and heavy bombardment withgas shell. It was occupied by the Germans next day, and was not recovered until3 October 1918. CITE BONJEAN MILITARY CEMETERY was begun (Plot IX) in October1914 and during the winter of 1914-15 it was used for civilian burials (laterremoved), the town cemetery at Le Bizet being too greatly exposed. The cemeterycontinued to be used by field ambulances and fighting units (particularly the4th, 6th, 21st, New Zealand, 17th and 57th (West Lancashire) Divisions and theAustralian Corps) until April 1918.

That may indicate that they were badly wounded and taken to a Field Ambulance unit, and may not be adjacent to where they were in the line. O'Connor is an exception, being buried at Bailleul.

It would also seem likely that Private Baker died in the same incident as Sydney, having the adjacent grave.

Hope that helps

[sazza]

Thanks guys, I'm really grateful for all your help. Thanks for the tip Ken, will post on solidiers as well.

Sarah, for what it might be worth, it does seem as if there were daily attritional losses of the type described by Neil, sniper, shelling, etc etc

These of his colleagues also died around that time (24th Jan, not 21st) (thanks to Geoff's Search Engine):

001 ALLCHIN W 9765 C COY, 4TH BN 26/01/1916 MIDDLESEXREGIMENT

002 BAKER R 8928 4TH BN 24/01/1916 MIDDLESEX REGIMENT

003 HINDE AJ 8953 4TH BN 27/01/1916 MIDDLESEX REGIMENT

004 KELL CB 1712 4TH BN 26/01/1916 MIDDLESEX REGIMENT

005 LEDAIN H 6775 4TH BN 26/01/1916 MIDDLESEX REGIMENT

006 MARKS F 6374 4TH BN 25/01/1916 MIDDLESEX REGIMENT

007 MARLER WJ 8104 4TH BN 25/01/1916 MIDDLESEX REGIMENT

008 O'CONNOR AE L/14903 4TH BN 25/01/1916 MIDDLESEXREGIMENT

009 THOMPSON SJ 7019 4TH BN 24/01/1916 MIDDLESEX REGIMENT

The CWGC Cemetery information for Cite BonJean states:

That may indicate that they were badly wounded and taken to a Field Ambulance unit, and may not be adjacent to where they were in the line. O'Connor is an exception, being buried at Bailleul.

It would also seem likely that Private Baker died in the same incident as Sydney, having the adjacent grave.

Hope that helps