WW1 cap badges

[squirrel]

One for Mr Broomfield perhaps.........

This from the London Scottish website:

"instead of a beret, a Tam O'Shanter (TOS) is worn and the soldiers are proud that it carries one of only seven cap-badges still in service from the 1914-18 Great War"

Any ideas what the seven are?

I would have thought that the five Foot Guards regiments, RE, RA and RAMC hadn't changed except for the Crown so a few more than seven perhaps.

[Temporary Viking]

Honourable Arillery Company (HAC) is maybe one of them?

[Steven Broomfield]

London Irish Rifles.

Technically, I guess you could count the badge of the Ox & Bucks, as that is The Rifles' badge (isn't it?).

[MBrockway]

Technically, I guess you could count the badge of the Ox & Bucks, as that is The Rifles' badge (isn't it?).

'Fraid not - grrr!

The Rifles cap badge has a crown:

whereas the OBLI, and incidentally the KRRC officer's cap badge - the so-called "bee hive" - just had a plain knot:

-

I know the 1st and 2nd battalions RGJ maintained the tradition of the KRRC and RB badges respectively on the rifles crossbelt in dress uniform, but I'm not sure if this has been carried forward into 2nd and 4th battalions, The Rifles.

Cheers,

Mark

[Andrew Upton]

"and the soldiers are proud that it carries one of only seven cap-badges still in service from the 1914-18 Great War"

Any ideas what the seven are?

I would have thought that the five Foot Guards regiments, RE, RA and RAMC hadn't changed except for the Crown so a few more than seven perhaps.

Doesn't the change in crown invalidate it though from being the type in service nearly 100 years ago? Case in point of the London Scottish they still appear to be using the exact same design, no changes to crowns, etc.

[Staffsyeoman]

If you want to be extremely pernickety - no WW1 badges are still in wear, as they are made from different materials, be it anodised aluminium or other metals.

[auchonvillerssomme]

The five obvious ones are-

Grenadier Guards.

Coldstream Guards.

Scots Guards.

Irish Guards.

Welsh Guards

Now you need to find Regiments who are still called by their WW1 title and who have no change at all to the badge, including crown.

Although maybe an exception could be made for material.

[PhilB]

Now you need to find Regiments who are still called by their WW1 title and who have no change at all to the badge, including crown.

Wouldn`t any crown have changed from King`s to Queen`s?

[Andrew Upton]

If you want to be extremely pernickety - no WW1 badges are still in wear, as they are made from different materials, be it anodised aluminium or other metals.

Don't some regiments still use bronze/blackened badges for Officers? In which case if one such regiment's still using the same pattern there would be nothing to stop a new Officer using his grandfathers cap badge from WW1 as long as it was still presentable.

Wouldn`t any crown have changed from King`s to Queen`s?

Not necessarily, regiments sometimes hold onto the earlier styles for whatever reason - I think it was the Isle of White Constabulary who still had Kings Crown helmet plate on manufacture and issue into the 1960's, when in theory they should have gone over to the Queens Crown in 1952.

[headgardener]

How about some of the Cavalry badges? I can't remember which regiments still exist, but RHG badges are essentially the same except for crown and cipher, also badges like the old 17th Lancers survived during their incarnation as 17th/21st, and may survive to this day. I just don't know. So something like R Scots Greys/Dragoon Gds, or some Hussars or Lancers regiments? Any experts?

[Steven Broomfield]

Cavalry - here's an oddity. The King's Royal Hussars are an amalgamation of four 1914-era Regiments: the 10th Hussars, 11th Hussars, 14th (King's) Hussars and 20th Hussars.Even more oddly, I've seen photos of the 20th Hussars badge (the x-H-x with crown on top) being worn by officers of the then 14/20th in Iraq in the First Gulf War.

The KRH wear the badge of the 14th Hussars (Austrian eagle), wor in 1914 before being changed temporarily to the Garter). That would certainly qualify.

The RSDG still wear the Napoleonic eagle, but backed by the crossed carbines of the 3rd Carabiniers, with whom they amalgamated. The 17th Lancers (later 17/21st) amalgamated with the 16th/5th and wear the motto of the 17th, but (I think) with crossed lances behind.

Other than that, as all the cavalry have been amalgamated several times, I don't think any survive in 1914 style.

So, if the website is correct, could it be the only 7 are the 5 Guards regiments, the KRH and the Cockney Jocks? But what about the London Irish? They're definitely still GW-pattern

[Steven Broomfield]

Correction to the above:

The Queen's Dragoon Guards (an amalgamation of the 1st King's Dragoon Guards and The Queen's Bays) wears the badge of the KDG (double-headed Prussian Eagle), so we can add that to the list.

And, of course, I'm wrong about the London irish, as they wear a crown, so that will have changed.

So, is it possible we're looking at

King's Dragoon Guards

King's Royal Hussars

Grenadier Guards

Coldstream Guards

Scots Guards

Irish Guards

Welsh Guards

London Scottish

Which makes eight.

Or could the website have got it wrong? Heaven forbid

[MBrockway]

I know the 1st and 2nd battalions RGJ maintained the tradition of the KRRC and RB badges respectively on the rifles crossbelt in dress uniform, but I'm not sure if this has been carried forward into 2nd and 4th battalions, The Rifles.

Pals,

In fact all battalions of The Rifles wear this badge on the crossbelt:

A smaller version is worn on the crossbelt by WOs, with riflemen and junior NCOs wearing it on the buckle of the waist belt.

You'll see it has lots of elements of KRRC, RB etc., and the modern battle honours, so the regimental traditions are carried forward, but it's definitely not identical to anything worn in WW1.

I do find it sad that they've now seen fit to render the famous Latin Celer et audax into Swift and Bold, but at least it survives!

Cheers,

Mark

[squirrel]

The London Irish Rifles, all ranks, have worn since 1993, the badge that was introduced between the wars for Warrant Officers. And, as you say, the crown has changed also.

Perhaps Mr Broomfield could ask the London Jocks what the seven badges are?

[Staffsyeoman]

Don't some regiments still use bronze/blackened badges for Officers? In which case if one such regiment's still using the same pattern there would be nothing to stop a new Officer using his grandfathers cap badge from WW1 as long as it was still presentable.

I cannot think - post 'Options for Change' of any infantry regiment, and few Corps units which wear the same pattern badge now. When the Duke of Wellington's Regiment disappeared into the Yorkshire Regiment in 2006 that was the last infantry badge to be older than 1968. Bronzed badges have all but vanished with the demise of the Service Dress cap and its replacement by the No.1 Dress hat for 'parade' dress and the emergence of the beret as day-to=day dress. I am sure a pointed word would have been made by the Regimental Sergeant Major had I tried to wear a King's Crown bronzed RA badge in the very short time I had an SD cap as a baby officer. All Corps were expected to change over to Queen's Crown as well.

[PhilB]

Certainly in REME, everyone hung on to the King`s crown badge for as long as possible after 1953 - it was a sign of an old soldier. I was issued one in 1955 and wore it through to 1957. Some were so old that, being brass, they`d been polished smooth!

[ianjonesncl]

Any ideas what the seven are?

Tyneside Scottish

Worn by 204 (Tyneside Scottish) Battery Royal Artilley (Volunteers). It is worn on a Tam O Shanter together with Black Watch Red Hackle which relates to the 1st Battalion Tyneside Scottish service in the Second World War.

http://1.bp.blogspot...00/158367b0.jpg

[o j kirby]

Hello,

Until recently, The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders wore the same badge as that worn in WW1, although the issue one was a rather poor quality staybright example. When I joined the TA, I wore an old A&SH badge of unknown date, but a quality item. Many of the others in the unit wore a pukka old badge. Shame the new Royal Regiment of Scotland badge has left us with a one size fits all situation. As for quality, the guilded lion on mine has lost its colour!

Owain.

[torscot]

hi fellows greetings from canada ithink some canadian regiments still use pre ww1 badges the royal canadian regiment has VRI and no crown correct me if i amwrong but i believe that is Victoria and dates from the boer war so here in the colonies we may have the oldest continously serving badge

[regimentalrogue]

hi fellows greetings from canada ithink some canadian regiments still use pre ww1 badges the royal canadian regiment has VRI and no crown correct me if i amwrong but i believe that is Victoria and dates from the boer war so here in the colonies we may have the oldest continously serving badge

The badge of The Royal Canadian Regiment has changed from the patterns worn during the First World War.

See Badges of The Royal Canadian Regiment and the article Crowns, Cyphers and Controversy.