Did he serve overseas

[annette edwards]

This John Hughes is the brother of Price , from my Medal card query.

Even though we have a lot of details on John, I can`t find a Medal Roll Card for him and there is no ( to me) information in his papers to say where he served.

Hope you can help.

There are a few attachments to follow starting with his papers found on Ancestry, I have had to make the smaller and I hope they are still readable.

Thanks

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[headgardener]

You've posted the front of his attestation papers dated 1909, and the front inside page which shows his medical details. The next few pages will give us more to work with, but judging by his army numbers on the front cover, he didn't serve overseas (I did a quick search for those numbers in the RWF on TNA's database).

[SWorrall]

He joined the Territorials in 1909, from what I can make out?

It's the next page that gives the information you seek, the one to the right of the Medical Inspection report.

Tantalisingly, you can see entries like 'POSTED' in the left of that page, but can't see where to, nor when.

Got any more of these documents?

Simon.

[annette edwards]

Sorry I thought my posts had failed, more to come

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These are papers found at home

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[headgardener]

He only served at home; look at the top of the 2nd page that you just posted - it says that he served at 'home' (i.e. the UK) from '09 until his discharge in 1917.

[SWorrall]

Almost conclusively, no he did not.

These new documents show pre-war Terrtorial service with annual trianing in the 47th bn RWF, then discharge from the 23rd bn.

See this page for a snippet about the 47th & 23rd (which were the same unit).

http://www.1914-1918.net/rwf.htm

Simon.

[SWorrall]

Men enlisted in the pre-War Terriers were not liable for service overseas unless they formally relinquished that status.

Many did, in the first flush of exuberance to go and serve in 1914. This man evidently did not.

Simon.

[annette edwards]

Thank you , apologies for the `messy` attachments, I thought they would have come in seperate posts,

Does this mean that he would have not had any medals ?

[headgardener]

The conclusive detail is the reference to service at 'home'; the 1st/4th RWF were serving overseas during much of the time that this man is recorded as serving with "4th Bn", but the fact that during this period he was serving at 'home' tells us that he was serving with 2nd/4th Bn (or possibly 3rd/4th, if it had been formed at that time, which I don't think it had).

Edit; just saw Simon'd 2nd post. It's very plausible that he didn't want to serve overseas, but there are also other possible reasons (health, age, experience required in a training battalion, etc). And, No, he wouldn't have received any medals. The page which shows that he served at Home also has a section for medal entitlement. he wouldn't have qualified for any campaign medals because he didn't serve overseas, but he could have qualified for awards such as the Meritorious Service Medal, but none are listed on his service document.

[SWorrall]

headgardener; there is a certain ambiguity here. Most of these records show service, including his annual training time, in the 47th bn, which was a Provisional unit. His discharge papers show the 23rd bn. which is the same unit under a different name. But you're right to highlight that one doc notes service in the 4th bn.

He's 18 in 1909 when he joins up. Not age then.

He's fit on joining up and does the required short period of annual training, so he's probably fit enough.

His occupation on joining was 'Miner'. Possibly a reserved occupation?

But I think that you've struck gold with the thing about "required in a training battalion".

He served with the TF for only 8.5 years, but over three years of that was active time. That's unheard-of for a peacetime Terrier.

So one might speculate that when the War started he joined the home-based training cadre, which counted as Serving Time with the Colours.

He leaves in 1917 with his enlistment completed. Three years into the War, essentially Full-time, but home-based. Add in his pre-War annual service periods and you've pretty much accounted for how he built up over 3 years service in just 8.5 years in the Territorials.

SW.

[headgardener]

headgardener; there is a certain ambiguity here. Most of these records show service, including his annual training time, in the 47th bn, which was a Provisional unit. His discharge papers show the 23rd bn. which is the same unit under a different name. But you're right to highlight that one doc notes service in the 4th bn.

Hi Simon,

All his annual training ('09 to '13) was done with 4th Bn. No further annual training during the war years. He transferred to 47th Bn in 1915, which became 23rd RWF in 1917.