All I have is a story

[museumtom]

I am in need of your quadratic equational mind's. On a headstone in a Carlow graveyard ( and on the Leighlin Memorial) there is an inscription saying that Jimmy O'Rourke was killed in the war in 1914 with the Cnnaught Rangers. Now there is only one O'Rourke casualty with the Connaughts in ww1 and that was in 1918.

Here is what I have so far, can you help at all?

Kind regards.

Tom.

O’ROURKE, JIMMY, Rank: Pte. Regiment or Service: Connaught Rangers.

Date of Death:30-September-1914. Age at Death,18. The information above comes from his inscription under Leighlinbridge/Old Leighlin on the Great War Memorial, Milford Street, Leighlinbridge, County Carlow. SDGW shows only one O’Rourke that died serving with the Connaught Rangers and he died in 1918. According to the CWGC the only James O’Rourke killed in 1914 was;- O’ROURKE, JAMES. Rank: Pte. Regiment or Service: Irish Guards. Unit; 1st Battalion. Date of Death:.06-November-1914. Service No:2820. Born in Kilkenny, County Kilkenny. Enlisted in Kilkenny. Killed in Action. Grave or Memorial Reference: He has no known grave but is listed on Panel 11 on the Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial in Belgium.

Any and all ideas or suggestions would be totally brilliant and most acceptable.

Thanking you all in advance.

Kind regards

Tom.

[archangel9]

Tom,

There is a John Rourke -

Name: ROURKE, JOHN

Initials: J

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Connaught Rangers

Unit Text: 2nd Bn.

Age: 19

Date of Death: 01/11/1914

Service No: 10622

Additional information: Son of John and Annie Rourke, of Rathcore, Enfield, Co. Meath.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: LII. F. 11.

Cemetery: POELCAPELLE BRITISH CEMETERY

age is close, but from Meath and DoD wrong.

John

[museumtom]

Hello John.

DOD is 1914 so you are correct there. The headstone was erected by an O'Rourke s he must have been an O'Rourke. I wondered if the records of James o'Rourke, Irish Guards ight have survived to help us out or that maybe in some obscure reference somewhere he might be mentioned. Having said all that I asked Skipman to give it a go and if he cannot break the code I reckon that someone on the forum might just have the key. I realise we have little to go on.

Many thanks for you help though, it is very much appreciated.

Kind regards

Tom.

[museumtom]

A quick check of the 1911 census shows a James Rourke aged 15 which would fit the bill though. No O'Rourkes suitable in it, I'm afraid.

Regards

Tom.

[archangel9]

The DoD, 30-September-1914, is almost certainly wrong. SDGW has no Connaught Rangers between 29th September and 4th October 1914.

There was no James O'Rourke with the Connaughts according to the MIC's. There is two matches for James Rourke

Medal card of Rourke, James

Corps Regiment No Rank

Connaught Rangers 6/1276 Private

Royal Engineers 311131 Private

entered theatre in December 1915.

Medal card of Rourke, James

Corps Regiment No Rank

Connaught Rangers 6578 Private

entered theatre after December 1915.

Not much help I'm afraid.

John

[Retlaw]

I am in need of your quadratic equational mind's. On a headstone in a Carlow graveyard ( and on the Leighlin Memorial) there is an inscription saying that Jimmy O'Rourke was killed in the war in 1914 with the Cnnaught Rangers. Now there is only one O'Rourke casualty with the Connaughts in ww1 and that was in 1918.

Here is what I have so far, can you help at all?

Kind regards.

Tom.

O'ROURKE, JIMMY, Rank: Pte. Regiment or Service: Connaught Rangers.

Date of Death:30-September-1914. Age at Death,18. The information above comes from his inscription under Leighlinbridge/Old Leighlin on the Great War Memorial, Milford Street, Leighlinbridge, County Carlow. SDGW shows only one O'Rourke that died serving with the Connaught Rangers and he died in 1918. According to the CWGC the only James O'Rourke killed in 1914 was;- O'ROURKE, JAMES. Rank: Pte. Regiment or Service: Irish Guards. Unit; 1st Battalion. Date of Death:.06-November-1914. Service No:2820. Born in Kilkenny, County Kilkenny. Enlisted in Kilkenny. Killed in Action. Grave or Memorial Reference: He has no known grave but is listed on Panel 11 on the Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial in Belgium.

Any and all ideas or suggestions would be totally brilliant and most acceptable.

Thanking you all in advance.

Kind regards

Tom.

When you were checking in S.D.G.W, were you using the CD-ROM or the actual records, there are a lot of scanning errors on the CD-ROM. I've also found many variances between S.D.G.W. CD-ROM and newspaper articles on WW1 casualties, have you checked any Memoriam notices in the local newspapers.

Retlaw.

[museumtom]

Thanks Archangel and Retlaw.

Yes I went through the local and county newpapers, Irelands Memorial records, De Ruvigny'a Roll of Honour, Our heroes,CWGC, all previous Irish War dead books and SDGW (CD). I dont think we have enough to nail this one down though.I have found differences between IMR, SCGW and the CWGC, so I always use all the information instead of depending on just the one.

Many thanks for all your help lads, its much appreciated. If I dissappear shortly its because the sleep fairy has attacked me, its bin a long day.

Kind regards.

Tom.

[headgardener]

The headstone was erected by an O'Rourke s he must have been an O'Rourke.

......but it doesn't necessarily follow that he served with this name.

There are several explanations as to how, for example, he could have served as John Rourke (the one who died 1 Nov 14) (i.e. he was illiterate, the recruiting sergeant wrote his name down wrongly, he decided to alter his name, etc). And although John Rourke's next-of-kin are recorded as being from Co. Meath, that doesn't mean to say that this man didn't have any connection with Carlow. When was the headstone erected, in any case? My understanding from your original post is that his name is simply recorded on a headstone there. That tells us nothing more than the fact that he was related in some way to a person buried in that grave. It doesn't even mean that he had any other connection to that local area.

You could try searching SDGW for Connaught Rangers casualties from that date and one or 2 days either side. Maybe the only likely candidate will be John Rourke. But maybe you'll turn up someone who tallies with the area you're looking at, but they may have a different name. Cross-checking with CWGC, BMD, and service papers (if they exist) may help confirm an age. In order to err on the side of caution, you could also extend your SDGW search to all casualties for those dates and search for a man with the same name but a different regiment. You could also search for men from that area. But the headstone says he was a Connaught, and gives you a date (which may not necessarily tally exactly with CWGC), together with an age. You're bound to track him down.

You'll just have to remain open to all possibilities if you want to nail this one.

[museumtom]

Hello Headgardner.

'You could try searching SDGW for Connaught Rangers casualties from that date and one or 2 days either side. Maybe the only likely candidate will be John Rourke. But maybe you'll turn up someone who tallies with the area you're looking at, but they may have a different name. Cross-checking with CWGC, BMD, and service papers (if they exist) may help confirm an age. In order to err on the side of caution, you could also extend your SDGW search to all casualties for those dates and search for a man with the same name but a different regiment. You could also search for men from that area. But the headstone says he was a Connaught, and gives you a date (which may not necessarily tally exactly with CWGC), together with an age. You're bound to track him down.'

I have done all that including the census with out a concrete bit of information that I can say 'thats him'I do not want to assume anything and put it down as a fact. If I/we find nothing then all will stay as it is I will not try to sway anyone with guesses. I like your thorough ananytical approach, though, we are very much alike.

Thanks for trying all the same.

Kind regards.

Tom.

[auchonvillerssomme]

There is no matching O'Rourke in the book version of SDGW.

[museumtom]

There is no matching O'Rourke in the book version of SDGW'. Now thats iteresting, thanks Auch.

Regards.

Tom.

[centurion]

Just as in recent times some Irish people have galicised their names so in the early part of the 20th Century some made their names more Irish by adopting (readopting?) an O in front of the surname so its possible that the name was Rourke but the relative raising the stone had since become O'Rourke

[mhifle]

Hi,

There is a Connaught Ranger 'Rourke,10662,J' on a list of killed under 'Reported from the Base under date 23rd Nov' from the Irish Times 28 Dec 1914.

Regards Mark

[archangel9]

Hi Mark,

10662 is the John Rourke in post 2, but the Times has got the number wrong.

Tom,

I spent an hour or so last night searching SDGW, CWGC, Ancestry, etc. and came up with nothing new.

John

[mhifle]

Hi John,

Thought it looked a bit odd since there is No.10662 Private Patrick Casey 2nd Battalion, who was a POW.

Regards Mark

[kildaremark]

O'Rourke is sometimes spelt as O'Rorke. I see a family in Bagnesltown listed as O'Rorke in the 1911 census. Even if the family were recorded as O'Rourke the soldier might still be O'Rorke / Rorke / Rourke / O'Rourke etc.

Mark

[auchonvillerssomme]

No matching O'Rourke or O'Rorkes (date, regiment) in Overseas Deaths either. I'm not so sure about it being recorded as Rourke so I would suggest another regiment.

[auchonvillerssomme]

Ive also tried every other likely spelling.

[museumtom]

Thanks for all the suggstions and leads lads. I have to agree about the different unit than the Conaughts though. It would be great to nail it down to one man but I reckon it is not possible wih the little we have to work on.

I really do appreciate your help one and all.

Kind regards.

Tom

[headgardener]

How about tracing him through the family that are recorded on the headstone? J. Rourke is a good candidate, imho, and there are bound to be one or two others; a 19 year old, killed or died on or very close to 30th September 1914, serving with the Connaughts, but possibly another regiment, with connections to the person or people named on that headstone. I reckon it's do-able, just depends on how much effort you feel it warrants.

[museumtom]

Hello HG.

I understand what you say. but how would a person writing about this put it down on paper? When it comes to history I always adopt the stance of never giving my opinion or guessing so it would go against the grain to presume, suppose or suggest. I must have concrete facts and sourcs to quote to back up those facts. Otherwise I am writing fiction, or guessing.

I appreciate your comments though. As you say it may be the way forward to go back and talk to the man who gave the information first.

Kind regards

Tom.