Training Reserve Battalion

[headgardener]

Does anyone here know if it's possible to tell which Training Reserve battalion a man served with by reference to his TR service number?

A man I'm researching for a village war memorial served with the TRes, with the service number; TR4/29208. The info came from his MIC, his service papers doen't appear to have survived. He transferred to the 9th Seaforths, was discharged sick in 1918 and died in 1919. His name was Hugh Christopher Joseph FRASER, and his CWGC details are HERE.

Edit; Steve E has pointed out in post No. 4 on this thread that I've made a mistake - TR4/29208 is the number of another man that I'm researching for the same Roll of Honour. Hugh Fraser's TRB number was given on his MIC as 1/13433, and his obit states that he trained at Dunfermline (therefore 41st TRB).

[themonsstar]

THE TRAINING RESERVE

In 1915 two kinds of reserve battalions were formed from New Army Service Battalions to supply their reinforcements. In April the 75 battalions of the original Fourth New Army, which were formed by the Reserve and Extra Reserve Battalions in October 1914, were converted to 2nd Reserve Battalions. In the summer of 1915 the depot companies of the Locally Raised Battalions formed 68 Local Reserve Battalions. These reserve battalions were organised in 24 Reserve Brigades.

In 1916 it was found that the regimental reserve battalions were unable to cope with the number of recruits coming in after the introduction of conscription and it was decided to form a new organization to receive and train the recruits and despatch drafts abroad to regiments which could not be supplied from regimental reserves. It was called the Training Reserve and came into being on 1st September, 1916.

The Training Reserve was formed from the 2nd Reserve and Local Reserve Battalions which discarded their designations and became numbered battalions of the Training Reserve from 1st to 112th. The 24 Reserve Brigades became Training Reserve Brigades and where the number of new battalions in a brigade was less than the existing ones the surplus units were absorbed in the new battalions.

The Reserve, Extra Reserve and T.F. Reserve Battalions were retained as regimental reserves and recruits were posted to them until they were up to strength and then to the Training Reserve. When drafts were required for regiments overseas they were first taken from the regimental reserves. If the number of trained men was insufficient they were taken from the Training Reserve.

The Irish regiments had no and Reserve battalions and there were only six Local Reserve battalions, for the Ulster Division, in the 15th Reserve Brigade. These battalions did not form part of the Training Reserve.

In 1917 the Training Reserve was reorganized and the battalions became more specialized in their training. In May 14 were designated Young Soldier Battalions which took in recruits aged 18 years and one month and after basic training they were posted in companies to a Graduated Battalion. There were 28 of these, linked in pairs to each Young Soldier Battalion.

It was now decided that the Graduated Battalions would be used for Home Defence while completing their recruit training and they were posted to the eight Home Service divisions replacing 2nd Line and Home Service Territorial battalions which were disbanded.

These battalions were now numbered from 201st onwards and increased to 46. Only six of the Reserve Brigades remained for the Young Soldier Battalions, now increased to 23.

On 27th October, 1917 the Graduated and Young Soldier Battalions were allotted to 23 Infantry Regiments and numbered 51st and 52nd for the Graduated and 53rd for the Young Soldier Battalions. Early in 1918 the Home Service divisions were reduced to four and, except for one brigade, all their battalions were now the Graduated ones. The remaining Training Reserve Battalions, after providing six Recruit Reception Battalions and four for training Machine Gun Corps recruits, were disbanded.

After the armistice some of the Graduated and Young Soldier Battalions went to the Rhine Army to replace Regular and disbanded battalions.

From British Regiments 1914-18, By Brig EA.James OBE TD.

[SteveE]

Narrowing it down a little, the 4 after TR denotes No. 4 District which was covered by Shrewsbury Record Office.

Shrewsbury was responsible for;-

South Wales Borderers

Kings Shropshire Light Infantry

South Lancashire Regt.

Welsh Regt.

Cheshire Regt.

Royal Welsh Fusiliers

Monmouth Regt.

Regards

Steve

[SteveE]

Does anyone here know if it's possible to tell which Training Reserve battalion a man served with by reference to his TR service number?

A man I'm researching for a village war memorial served with the TRes, with the service number; TR4/29208. The info came from his MIC, his service papers doen't appear to have survived. He transferred to the 9th Seaforths, was discharged sick in 1918 and died in 1919. His name was Hugh Christopher Joseph FRASER, and his CWGC details are HERE.

There's a MIC for TR4/29208 but it's for an Archibald Christian CAMPBELL and not Hugh Christopher Joseph FRASER, states he was in 64th TRB which was formed from 21st and 22nd (Reserve) Bns, the Royal Welsh Fusiliers.

Regards

Steve

[headgardener]

Themonstar,

I already have James, but thanks for posting the details. They'll certainly be helpful for anyone looking at this thread at a later date.

Steve E,

My mistake! Archibald Christian Campbell is another man that I'm researching for the same war memorial/roll of honour (he was subsequently a 2Lt in the RFC/RAF), and the number is most definately his. I'd written down all the TRB numbers that I was researching and managed to misread them; I read Fraser's name but wrote Campbell's number! I have added an edit to my original post, just in case anyone reads it again and gets confused.

But you've absolutely answered my question which was whether there were any clues in the TRB numbers as to the TRB that a man trained with. Is there a list of the various numbered districts?

Thank you both for your input. I appreciate it.

[purley]

Each TR Brigade had 4 or 5 regiments which were numbered 1 through 112

The mans number was TR/X/yyyyy where X was the Brigade

within the brigade the numbers were allocated to regiments in blocks of 4000 so for eaxmple in TR/8 the numbers were allocated as follows

1-4000 33rd TR (13th Warwicks)

4001-8000 34th TR (13th Hants)

8001-12000 35th TR (7th Dorsets)

12001-16000 36th TR (9th Ox and Bucks)

16001-20000 37th Tr (9th R Berks)

once a regiment used up all its numbers it got a new block of 4000 but not in any particular order - however if you make groups of 4000 numbers and find a man in the same group as the one you are interested in, he will be from the same regiment.

The TR numbers were issued to men returning to active service after injury as well as to new recruits

To make matters even more confusing men were transferred back to one of the regular battalions of the TR parent regiment before ongoing transfer to the new unit. They either resumed their old number if it was the regiment with which they had been injured or got a new regimental number which was used perhaps for only a few days - this accounts for many large gaps in people's lists of regimental numbers - they then got a new number for the unit to which they were ultimately transferred. Thus if a man reported back after injury and was able to serve immediately he might have as many as four different regimental numbers in the space of a month or so -

His original number

A TR number

a number from the parent regiment of the TR battalion

a number from the regiment to which he was transferred.

You can see these if you can find his postings record (most were destroyed) but many numbers do not appear on MICs

somewhere I do have a list of all the districts and parent regiments but cannot lay my hands on it at the moment.

John

[SteveE]

Is there a list of the various numbered districts?

This thread should help...http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=121736&st=0&p=1168267&hl="regimental%20districts"&fromsearch=1entry1168267

Regards

Steve

[headgardener]

John,

I had never imagined that it could be so complicated. I've seen MIC's with more than one TR number, and that explains why. That's a big help, and not just in this particular case.

Steve,

That's great. I know that I'll be coming back to that reference in the future. Thanks again.

[Loraine]

On 20/08/2010 at 21:22, themonsstar said:

THE TRAINING RESERVE

In 1915 two kinds of reserve battalions were formed from New Army Service Battalions to supply their reinforcements. In April the 75 battalions of the original Fourth New Army, which were formed by the Reserve and Extra Reserve Battalions in October 1914, were converted to 2nd Reserve Battalions. In the summer of 1915 the depot companies of the Locally Raised Battalions formed 68 Local Reserve Battalions. These reserve battalions were organised in 24 Reserve Brigades.

In 1916 it was found that the regimental reserve battalions were unable to cope with the number of recruits coming in after the introduction of conscription and it was decided to form a new organization to receive and train the recruits and despatch drafts abroad to regiments which could not be supplied from regimental reserves. It was called the Training Reserve and came into being on 1st September, 1916.

The Training Reserve was formed from the 2nd Reserve and Local Reserve Battalions which discarded their designations and became numbered battalions of the Training Reserve from 1st to 112th. The 24 Reserve Brigades became Training Reserve Brigades and where the number of new battalions in a brigade was less than the existing ones the surplus units were absorbed in the new battalions.

The Reserve, Extra Reserve and T.F. Reserve Battalions were retained as regimental reserves and recruits were posted to them until they were up to strength and then to the Training Reserve. When drafts were required for regiments overseas they were first taken from the regimental reserves. If the number of trained men was insufficient they were taken from the Training Reserve.

The Irish regiments had no and Reserve battalions and there were only six Local Reserve battalions, for the Ulster Division, in the 15th Reserve Brigade. These battalions did not form part of the Training Reserve.

In 1917 the Training Reserve was reorganized and the battalions became more specialized in their training. In May 14 were designated Young Soldier Battalions which took in recruits aged 18 years and one month and after basic training they were posted in companies to a Graduated Battalion. There were 28 of these, linked in pairs to each Young Soldier Battalion.

It was now decided that the Graduated Battalions would be used for Home Defence while completing their recruit training and they were posted to the eight Home Service divisions replacing 2nd Line and Home Service Territorial battalions which were disbanded.

These battalions were now numbered from 201st onwards and increased to 46. Only six of the Reserve Brigades remained for the Young Soldier Battalions, now increased to 23.

On 27th October, 1917 the Graduated and Young Soldier Battalions were allotted to 23 Infantry Regiments and numbered 51st and 52nd for the Graduated and 53rd for the Young Soldier Battalions. Early in 1918 the Home Service divisions were reduced to four and, except for one brigade, all their battalions were now the Graduated ones. The remaining Training Reserve Battalions, after providing six Recruit Reception Battalions and four for training Machine Gun Corps recruits, were disbanded.

After the armistice some of the Graduated and Young Soldier Battalions went to the Rhine Army to replace Regular and disbanded battalions.

From British Regiments 1914-18, By Brig EA.James OBE TD.

This is fantastic information.  I started a post regarding my grandfather's service.  He was 16 years old in 1917. He joined the Training Reserves in Feb 1917 until March 1918. I have his number  as TR 16 41781. It could be TR 10/41781. it's a little hard to read. Would you have any details on where they would have trained?  I would be very interested to see any images,  maps or photographs.  Thanking you in advance Loraine 

 

[Loraine]

[ss002d6252]

The query is already been discussed in another thread - can we please keep it all together for continuity.

 

Craig

[Loraine]

4 hours ago, ss002d6252 said:

The query is already been discussed in another thread - can we please keep it all together for continuity.

 

Craig

I didn't realise that is the protocol with using this site. I saw the additional information on this thread so naturally posted my question. I go read the rules again so I don't make other mistakes unknowingly. Cheers Loraine

[LCpl Lee Cope]

Hello, could anybody please tell me if the 92nd Training Reserve were ever billeted at Harpenden and with all the attached information, did they deploy to France or elsewhere during WW1?

 

22nd	92nd	17th (Reserve) Bn, the Royal Warwickshire	Chiseldon	TR/7
	93rd	15th (Reserve) Bn, the Gloucestershire Regiment	Chiseldon	TR/7	262nd Graduated
	94rd	16th (Reserve) Bn, the Gloucestershire Regiment	Chiseldon	TR/7	274th Graduated
	95th	11th (Reserve) Bn, the Duke of Cornwall’s Light Infantry	Chiseldon	TR/8	95th Young Soldier
	96th	16th (Reserve) Bn (Portsmouth), the Hampshire Regiment	Chiseldon	TR/8

 

22nd Reserve Brigade	Chiseldon	17th (Reserve) Battalion, Royal Warwickshire Regiment	92nd
		15th (Reserve) Battalion, Gloucestershire Regiment	93rd
		16th (Reserve) Battalion, Gloucestershire Regiment	94th
		11th (Reserve) Battalion, Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry	95th
		16th (Reserve) Battalion, (Portsmouth), Hampshire Regiment	96th

Edited 26 April by LCpl Lee Cope

[RussT]

2 hours ago, LCpl Lee Cope said:

did they deploy to France or elsewhere during WW1?

Training Reserve Battalions remained in the UK - there were for the Training of men in order to form a Reserve of men who could then be deployed, via drafts of trained men, to overseas Battalions in France and elsewhere. I don't believe they moved around the UK.

Regards

Russ