Canadian casualty (16th Bn.) from Winnipeg

[headgardener]

I'm researching a man called Walter Thomson, who was killed in action in 1916 while serving with the 16th Bn, CEF. CWGC details HERE.

Before the war he was living in Winnipeg. I believe that he was working for a railway company, and I'm hoping that someone may be able to advise which company it's likely to be. Ultimately I'm trying to find if there's a company archive, war memorial, roll of honour, etc.

He emigrated to Canada in August 1910 and described his intended occupation as 'railway servant'. Before leaving Scotland he had been a station-master for the North British Railway Co. (he'd started out as a porter and worked his way up). I found him on the 1911 Canadian census (wrongly transcribed as 'Thompson'), living in a boarding house at 450 Ross, in Winnipeg. He was described as working for the railway as a 'labourer'. His attestation paper dating from 1915 describes him as a 'linesman'.

What railway companies could he have been working for? And are there any archives for them?

I'd be grateful for any advice. I already have all the earlier Scottish census returns.

As an aside, I noticed on the Canadian census that he worked an amazing 70 hours per week, and was earning about $9.40 per week (I have no idea how much that represents by contemporary standards). He must have been a very hardy character. He was 45 years old when war broke out, and knocked 10 years off his age in order to enlist. His wife, son and daughter stayed in Scotland when he went to Canada, so I can only assume that he was either sending money back to them, or that he was hoping to build a new life in Canada in order that they could join him at some later date. He certainly wasn't estranged from them as he came to visit them shortly after he arrived in the UK with the CEF. The local newspaper reported that it was the first time they'd seen each other since he left in 1910. Very different times.....

[Terry_Reeves]

This may give you a start:

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/genealogy/022-913.005-e.html

Incidentally, my grandparents emigrated to Winnipeg in 1920 and my Grandfather worked for Canadian Pacific.

TR

[mhifle]

Hi,

His regimental number is within block 420001-422000 for the 43th Battalion, Cameron Highlanders of Canada, raised 15 Jan 1915 from around Winnipeg.

It left Canada 1 June 1915 form Montreal on the 'Grampian' arrived UK 9 June 1915.

"The 43rd Canadian Infantry Battalion was organized in December 1914 under the command of Lieutenant-Colonel R.M. Thomson under authorization published in General Order 86 of 1 July 1915. The battalion mobilized and recruited in Winnipeg.

The battalion embarked at Montreal on 1 June 1915 aboard GRAMPIAN, disembarking in England on 9 June 1915. Its strength was 40 officers and 998 other ranks. The battalion arrived in France on 20 February 1916, becoming part of the 3rd Canadian Division, 9th Canadian Infantry Brigade. It was later reinforced by the 14th Canadian Reserve Battalion. It returned to England on 11 February 1919, disembarked in Canada on 20 March 1919, was demobilized on 24 March 1919, and was disbanded by General Order 149 of 15 September 1920."

Regards Mark

[headgardener]

Terry,

Thanks for the pointer. I've used the CollectionsCanada site so often, but only the 'soldiers of the great war' database. I simply never considered that there'd be a link there for railway records. I see that they say labourers were often employed by contractors and not by railway companies, so maybe I'm ultimately going to draw a blank. They also say that I need to know the company a man worked for, so I guess I still need a lead as to Railway companies who were based in Winnipeg, or in Manitoba generally. I was hoping that there might have only been one possibility. You say that your g'father worked for CP, I wonder whether they were the 'local' railroad company?

Mark,

I've wondered about the Canadian army numbering system, didn't realize it worked in blocks. Thanks for your info, his attestation paper does indeed state that he joined the 43rd, so I'll have to get a copy of his service papers in order to find out when he transferred to the 16th Canadian Scottish. Thanks again for that.

[chloeilustrates]

Hello!

I read this with some interest as my great great uncle emigrated to Winnipeg in 1912 and if your man was still living in Ross Ave in the later part of that year then my gguncle was living 25 minutes up the way from him!

What a small world?! http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=450+ross+winnipeg&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=450+Ross+Ave,+Winnipeg,+MB+R3A+0L8,+Canada&gl=uk&ei=RKdpTPD0LZS7jAews-DUBA&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CBcQ8gEwAA

Hope the link works...

I'm trying to trace my g.g.uncle William Robert Brownrigg, who was an accountant and his manoeuvres in the latter stages of the war as he was enlisted in June 1918. Hope you don't mind my commenting on your post as it's probably of no interest at all to you! But if you don't mind me asking, whats the best way to go about looking through censuses in Canada? I'm finding it really confusing.

Hope I've not been too much bother

Kind Regards, Chloe

[headgardener]

Hello Chloe,

Of course you're not being a bother! How could I possibly object to someone with such a lovely avatar joining my thread? It makes such a change to some of the more... aggressive.... avatars which are favoured by many around these parts. I'm hoping that you'll be a civilizing influence on us all!

I would suggest that you might have better luck by starting your own thread on this man, but I see that you've already done it.

Regarding Canadian census returns, I've accessed them via Ancestry. A big local reference library here in London (England, not Ontario....) has access to Ancestry, and I've found it quite easy to use, but you need to be aware of alternative spellings (such as the case with my man here). Just make sure you specify that you're looking for a male, give a margin of error of a couple of years either side of your man's date of birth, check alternative spellings (I think you can do 'wildcard' searches using * or § in place of possible alternative spellings; i.e. Brownrig*) and you should turn something up.

Mind you, your man only emigrated in 1912, so he probably won't show on the 1911 census............

Thanks for the Google Maps link, by the way!

[David B]

HG,

Re Canadian census returns, you don't need Ancestry (Although I have it) - just Google 1911 Canadian census (or which ever one that you need) and up they come.

Ref the railways I had a cousin working on the railroad (where have I heard that one before) in the 1930's, he was working for Canadian Pacific but have not been able to get any records,

apparently they keep them very very close to the chest.

Cheers David

[KennethB]

Hi,

The linesman term is actually quite helpful. It would suggest that he was working with electricity. He could have worked for the Winnipeg Electric Railway Company (this also controled the electric utilities in Winnipeg), which ran interurban and street cars powered by electricity. The company is now known as Winnipeg Transit. You could try contacting The Halton County Radial Railway (museum based in Toronto area) for advice on finding out more about this topic. Street railroaders are very proud of their past and Halton has quite the archive collection. While it may or may not contain anything on Winnipeg, they might be able to put you in touch with someone in more local to Winnipeg that could help. archives@hcry.org

Best of luck,

Ken

[headgardener]

David,

Thanks for the lead on the Canadian census returns. That's something I didn't know, so now I won't have to wait until my next library visit in order to search the census! You mention the Canadian Pacific, I wonder if they were the only railroad Co. in Manitoba?

KennethB,

That's an excellent suggestion, well deduced! I will definately contact them. Just in case I draw a blank on that, I still haven't been able to work out which mainline railroad companies would have been based in Manitoba, Winnipeg in particular. Would you have any idea?

I hadn't really thought much about the whole 'lineman' reference, but I suppose it's also possible that he had started work with a telegraph company rather than working for a railroad co. I think that telegraph lines ran alongside railroads, so perhaps being a linesman offered better paid work rather than simply being a labourer. Any thoughts?

[KennethB]

Hi,

This is a list of the major steam railroads of the time period in Winnipeg.

Grand Trunk Pacific Railway (now part of Canadian National Railway)

Duluth, Winnipeg and Pacific Railway (now part of Canadian National Railway)

Canadian Northern Railway (CNoR) (now part of Canadian National Railway)

Canadian Pacific Railway (CPR)

Both Canadian Pacific and Canadian Northern had yards in the city. Of these two, Canadian Pacific was the big dog.

The 450 Ross Ave.address is located near the CPR yard.

By the way, the house is still there (google street view).

Also found a great map of 1900's Winnipeg!

http://www.mhs.mb.ca...innipeg1908.jpg

When I had mentioned linesman I was thinking electrical powerline not telegraph (though that was a consideration that eluded me!). Being a linesman would have been a good job to have.

The train type to which I was refering was powered by over head wires.

During William's time there, the trolly system was going through a boom period, and many people forget that trollies are a form of railroad. Just thinking outside the box abit.

Ken

[KennethB]

Another quick thought, while new Canadian Government privacy policies now make information gathering difficult with finding out if somebody worked for a company years ago, you could find out if they have information in the archivesabout company housing for employees located in Winnipeg. During the early build up in the west companies helped with housing. Check with both Canadian Pacific and Canadian National railroads to see if they have an archive. If you have luck there, a simple comparison of addresses would possibly show employment.

Ken

[chloeilustrates]

Hey HG,

Thanks for the kind words!!

I'll defo give those pointers a go to try and track him down, from what I know of him he boarded and rented I think and the last firm address is the one at 311 Colony Road, 25mins away from your chap! Annoyingly, my brother is currently on exercise in Calgary with the QDG's and I'd love to be able to get him to nip away on a day or two off to go investigate for me!!

I may have to renew my ancestry account as it does seem like the most useful thing to use remotely. Out of curiosity what ref library are you using? I'm in London too...I know I really must get to Kew but finding time can beggar belief!

Kind Regards,

Chloe

Hello Chloe,

Of course you're not being a bother! How could I possibly object to someone with such a lovely avatar joining my thread? It makes such a change to some of the more... aggressive.... avatars which are favoured by many around these parts. I'm hoping that you'll be a civilizing influence on us all!

I would suggest that you might have better luck by starting your own thread on this man, but I see that you've already done it.

Regarding Canadian census returns, I've accessed them via Ancestry. A big local reference library here in London (England, not Ontario....) has access to Ancestry, and I've found it quite easy to use, but you need to be aware of alternative spellings (such as the case with my man here). Just make sure you specify that you're looking for a male, give a margin of error of a couple of years either side of your man's date of birth, check alternative spellings (I think you can do 'wildcard' searches using * or § in place of possible alternative spellings; i.e. Brownrig*) and you should turn something up.

Mind you, your man only emigrated in 1912, so he probably won't show on the 1911 census............

Thanks for the Google Maps link, by the way!

[KennethB]

Edit- I noticed that the map link didn't work, I'll try again. Sorry!

http://www.mhs.mb.ca...innipeg1908.jpg

Ken

[headgardener]

Ken,

Good work! I reckon that the fact the address in Ross is close to the CPR site is likely to be an important lead. In 2 Scottish census returns he was living in accomodation which lay very close to the stations that he worked at. Obviously we have to keep an open mind about employment elsewhere, but it's a very good place to start looking. And thanks very much for highlighting the Google Earth image of the building! It just adds a little more flesh to the bones. Your suggestion about the electric trolley trains is a very good one, not one I'd have thought of myself. Again, a very good lead.

Chloe,

PM sent.