Albert William Gould

[watchdog]

This is one of more than twenty requests for information and help that I am hoping to post today. They are all in relation to TF soldiers who enlisted on or about the 5 August 1914 and almost all of whom survived the war. The common denominator is the fact that they were all patent examiners serving in the Patent Office prior to the outbreak of war.

Normally I would be able to pursue most of the basic work myself and would only be coming to all of you for help with the 'extras' but I am under some pressure of time. I hope you don't mind. But then again it's the sort of thing almost all of us enjoy – finding out about these men who fought in the Great War. So I'm hoping that you will appreciate the challenge.

The work is in support of my dissertation for the Birmingham MA in First World War studies and therefore if any of you do have information which might assist me I would be grateful if you could also quote the source of that information.

I'm not acting entirely blind of course and here is the information that I've already found out about Albert William Gould:

Gould attended the University College Cardiff and gained a B.Sc before joining the Patent Office in February 1908. He appears to have enlisted as a private in 2nd London Div T&S Column ASC (TF) on or about 15 Sep 1914 and some time before 1916 had transferred to 340th Coy ASC (MT). He may have been undertaking officer training in 1918.

The sorts of information I'm hoping to glean are: Was he a pre-war territorial or did he elect to joint the territorials rather than a Kitchener unit? Any 1911 Census details. Where did the two units he was with serve during the war and did Gould stay with them throughout? And of course anything else that might occur to all of you.

Thanks

[Verrico2009]

I think there's a short set of papers for this man: "discharged on being appointed to a commission" stamped and very faintly written "ASC". Can't read the rest. I can see "L/Cpl 14.4.18" written beside it. Unfortunately it's very damaged - less than the bottom half of the page. Father Thomas William, looks like he resides at "Newport Mon.". Later date for attestation though - May 1915.

Name: Albert William Gould

Estimated birth year: abt 1886

Age at Enlistment: 29

Residence: The "Hollies" ??, West ??

Document Year: 1915

Regimental Number: 102239

Regiment Name: ASC

Matching MIC shows him originally as a Private and then 2/Lieut. Landed in France 22.8.15.

[watchdog]

I have his DOB as 17 May 1886. Its serendipity that his birthplace may have been Newport which is where the Patent Office have their offices today. From my records he was certainly believed to be serving before January 1915 but now I need to find a third source to clear up the ambiguity

[Verrico2009]

Well, an Albert E Fragley first landed in France on 29 November 1914 and then somehow fraudulently managed to re-enlist as Albert Gould on 15 June 1915! But he doesn't seem to have progressed beyond Private...

His service looks like this.

Name: Albert E Fragley

[Albert Gould]

Regiment or Corps: Kings Royal Rifle Corps, London Regiment, C of London Yeo, Royal Garrison Artillery

Regimental Number: 5/5071, 4785, 261125, 319333

[watchdog]

Curiouser and curiouser...

[Verrico2009]

There's keen and keener! I have seen one man who just seemed to take an exception to the regiment he ended up in and toddled off to another.

[Aneurin]

And curiouser. There is no Gould (or Fragley for that matter) listed under University College Cardiff (or UC Aberystwyth or UC Bangor) in the University of Wales Roll of Service.

Gwyn

[watchdog]

Gwyn,

that's interesting. How complete were those rolls do you think? Have you found many people who were omitted? Did they include people who survived the war? Or did my man exaggerate his academic credentials?

Dudley

[Aneurin]

Dudley

The Roll does include those who survived. I can't say that I have found any examples of omissions but there must be some. How could the compilers be certain that they had located every former student who served? So if a man doesn't appear in the list, it doesn't necessarily mean he didn't attend the university.

It may be a long shot, but I wonder if the University of Wales has records of graduates prior to 1909? You could try the University of Wales Registry at:

http://www.wales.ac.uk/en/AboutUs/ContactingtheUniversity/Contactus.aspx

Since you are researching a dissertation, they might be prepared to help.

Gwyn

[watchdog]

Thanks Gwyn. I've probably left it a bit late for now and need to avoid going down a rabbit hole. But I do intend to follow this up.

Dudley