Uniform & Rank ID WW1.

[Studlea]

I have a picture of a relative who spoke little of his WW1 service. With a little digging on the internet I am led to think the photo tells us he was a Lance Corporal or Corporal in the Household Cavalry. (He was born in London and raised in London & Hampshire.)

We would be very grateful if anyone would share their thoughts and enlighten us. Also, ideally, where to find the records of service. 'Ancestry' is not a great help

The crop suggests cavalry.

The light colour and shorts suggest sunny climes.

The Corporal chevrons on the lower sleeve suggest NCO.

The cap badge looks a little like a laurel roundel.

We look forward to what anyone can tell us.

[4thGordons]

Hi Studlea,

It might be better to post a smaller, higher resolution picture to get details (eg on the cap badge - can you scan just that area but at higher res/) - also a name might help because folks on here can do wonders looking up some of these things.

You are correct he is wearing KD (khaki Drill) - issued in warm climates such as Africa/India/Middle East. I would need to check but I think the shape of the pocket flaps might help date this picture.

The chevrons on his cuff are in fact Long Service/Good Conduct chevrons not rank badges.(Corp. badges of rank are worn on the upper sleeve/s)

The "crop" may well actually be a swagger stick / cane frequently used as a photographers prop. also carried by men when "walking out" I would not jump to cavalry either - a majority of WWI era transport was horse driven so almost every unit had men in mounted roles (so even if it is a crop - it may not be cavalry and may be a driver etc) - shorts would suggest against a mounted role too perhaps. He seems to have interesting boots on...again better quality image would help

The picture clearly appears to me to date from the post war period (he appears to be wearing WWI medal ribbons - not usually available until at least 1919.

Hope this helps a bit

Chris

[Studlea]

Very many thanks for the reply. I will name him here and then try and find the right forum thread for such things.

The name is Albert Edward PACKER, born London 1897, possibly living Hampshire in 1911 at least, but with close family in London.

He also had a brother who served: William Joseph PACKER, b. 1896 London, who it appears was estranged from the family. He served in 6th Dragoons but was injured out in 1917.

If anyone can shed light on their service this would be wonderful.

I wondered about the long / good service stripes but to get two, I have read would mean 6 years service, and I don't think he stayed in after the war; possible though, and the information about medal ribbons is very telling.

As to picture definition, this is all I have at present, the original picture is elsewhere now so higher definition of a smaller are won't help.

[CT-Guards]

Not to much I can do with the quality but i'm working on it as we speak.

Can I see a Tank in the centre of that badge, or have I been gorping at it for to long!

[CT-Guards]

1st try

[Studlea]

Dear Colin,

Thanks for these. You have done a great job on the enhancement.

The answers of regiment etc definitely lie in higher resolution. A plate image such as this should have good definition, so I have asked the holder of the picture (other end of the country) to attempt high resolution scans of the three smaller areas you have tried. Hopefully they will e-mail these to me in a day or two.

May I request an e-mailed large version of the enhanced image you have prepared?

Thanks again,

SPK.

P.S. I think his record might be mis-transcribed as Parker, not Packer, but there are so many Parkers, identifying that cap badge is vital.

[CT-Guards]

Email on it's way.

[Muerrisch]

only five years good conduct needed for 2 GC badges by 1914.

I agree post war.

Very unusual for Hse Cavy to serve overseas in peacetime. Probably not that regiment [without wishing to be rude, he is a bit scruffy for Hse Cavy anyway!]

[Staffsyeoman]

Not a Tank Corps badge, is it?

[Studlea]

Probably not that regiment [without wishing to be rude, he is a bit scruffy for Hse Cavy anyway!]

To Grumpy,

No worries, and you're probably right; and without wishing to be rude to the Cavalry myself, looks like he worked for a living. I am waiting on better scans so hopefully the cap badge will come to the fore.

To CT-Guards,

Looking forward to seeing that, as will his granddaughter I'm sure.

Whilst waiting on the better scans, in summary it looks like we have a 1919 or later picture, somewhere warm, either Cavalry corporal or regular private with 5-6 years or more good conduct, with no Wounds Strips. The unbuttoned tunic and casual pose tells us it is not staged professional shot, sunny climes. Crop is not a prop, so has some relevance, if not riding horses, working & controlling them or camels. I must admit, CT-Guards &Staffsyeoman could definitely be onto something with Tank Regiment a possibility; did they not originate from the Cavalry regiments? Would horses still have been used for general pulling & carrying still?

SPK.

[Staffsyeoman]

I'm thinking (if proven to be a TC badge) more along the lines of a Light Armoured Motor Battery - armoured cars - in a hot climate?

[CT-Guards]

I'm with Staffsyeoman on TC

[Studlea]

Pending the better images, but assuming Tank Corps is correct, the warm location I am beginning to think is India or Egypt.

We might in fact be onto a possible solution to another small family mystery. I would preface this by saying this is mainly thinking aloud, and I my knowledge of military history is so small as to be non existent.

The man in the picture is Albert. Albert's brother, William, a year or so older, was in 6^th Dragoons, and survived the war, but injured out from France in late 1917.

It was believed they were estranged as teenagers, or at least we are certain, William was estranged from their father, and had been living away from the family group from age 13 or so. (Albert's descendants had no knowledge of William until I told them.) We also know William was a professional driver, possibly pre-war briefly, but certainly immediately post war.

Albert always calls London & Hampshire home, and some time after WW1 settles with his family in Hampshire.

William, comes out of the army injured in 1917, and within a couple of months is marrying a Chester girl in Chester, and living in a house rented from the Grosvenor estates. These are properties owned by "Duke Bendor", the 2^nd Duke of Westminster, whose seat is Eaton near Chester, but perhaps being more famous for being amongst the wealthiest in the UK, owning much of Mayfair to this day.

There is no family connection whatsoever for William in Chester, this is certain, and on marriage, he declared his father was deceased, even though he was in fact raising a second brood south of London. In 1917, labour was in short supply all over, but acutely in Chester, with so many men in the services, and there was a huge munitions factory near Chester that refused to have women doing meaningful work. Employment may have been an attraction.

However, "Duke Bendor" had an active part in World War 1, with the early motorised cavalry, and even had his own armoured Rolls Royce. 6^th Dragoons was early motorised cavalry. We are thinking Albert was in early Tank Corp, with possible origins in Cavalry.

I have speculated that maybe there was some 'arrangement' or 'understanding' that those who saw service with the Duke, perhaps received some help from the Duke if injured out. Much of the low cost private let property in Chester at this time was pretty dire, but the well maintained Grosvenor estates houses were sought after. The estates archivist cannot find anything specific other than he, William, was a tenant. The estate and current Duke to this day continues, very quietly, to help people out, and I personally know a family in the Chester area who received generous but quiet help when they needed it.

Sorry to have waffled on. As soon as I have the better images we will look again.

Thank you all so much for help and interest.

SPK.

[CT-Guards]

Need an email address can you send?