PTE J. CONNOP 4TH SAI

[roypaule]

11 AUGUST 2010

MANILA, PHILIPPINES

DEAR FRIENDS,

I'M RESEARCHING ON A PRIVATE J. CONNOP 4TH SAI. (THIS IS INSCRIBED ON THE RIM OF A BRITISH VICTORY MEDAL).

IS THIS THE SAME PERSON WHO'S LISTED AT THE CWGC AS PRIVATE JOSEPH CONNOP, 4TH REGIMENT, SOUTH AFRICAN INFANTRY WITH REGIMENT NUMBERS 3731 WHO DIED 12/10/16?

THANK YOU IN ADVANCE AND KINDEST REGARDS,

ROY

[ander11]

Hi there Roy, It looks like they are the same person. On the LLT, I found they were in the 9th Scottish Div

as part of south african brigade. here are some links to look at

http://www.1914-1918.net/9div.htm

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=758829

best reguards

IanAnder

[sotonmate]

Roy

You subject was killed at the Battle of Le Transloy(a phase of the Battles of the Somme) which ran from 1 to 18 October 1916. See this from Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Le_Transloy

9 Division were part of III Corps of 4th Army.

Sotonmate

[headgardener]

I'M RESEARCHING ON A PRIVATE J. CONNOP 4TH SAI. (THIS IS INSCRIBED ON THE RIM OF A BRITISH VICTORY MEDAL).

IS THIS THE SAME PERSON WHO'S LISTED AT THE CWGC AS PRIVATE JOSEPH CONNOP, 4TH REGIMENT, SOUTH AFRICAN INFANTRY WITH REGIMENT NUMBERS 3731 WHO DIED 12/10/16?

If you have his victory medal, and his name is inscribed on the rim, surely it also shows his service number.....?

Is it a different number to the man commemorated on CWGC?

[SteveE]

If you have his victory medal, and his name is inscribed on the rim, surely it also shows his service number.....?

I'm pretty sure the South Africans didn't inscribe their Medals with the service number.

Steve

[headgardener]

I'm pretty sure the South Africans didn't inscribe their Medals with the service number.

I've just done some digging, and I see that you're right about this.

So can we truly positively ID a South African medal recipient from WW1 without reference to a medal index (such as the MIC's at TNA)? My experience of British MIC's makes me very sceptical that this can be done accurately, particularly when a recipient only has one fairly common initial.

Is there such a thing as a S African service roll (an accurate one...), or a set of MIC's?

[SteveE]

So can we truly positively ID a South African medal recipient from WW1 without reference to a medal index (such as the MIC's at TNA)? My experience of British MIC's makes me very sceptical that this can be done accurately, particularly when a recipient only has one fairly common initial.

Is there such a thing as a S African service roll (an accurate one...), or a set of MIC's?

The service records certainly survive in South Africa, they're arranged alphabetically so it should be relatively easy to find the more unusual names, it becomes more problematical when there are more than one with the same initials and unit.

Some, not all, of the records I've seen have been stamped with a Regd. No., List No. and Roll No. as well as the date the medals were despatched so whether these can be translated into Rolls or MICs as per the British is one for our South African pals I'm afraid.

Steve

[headgardener]

Thanks for that, Steve.

Some time ago, I tried doing some online research on some S African soldiers, but I couldn't find any online resources. I was curious to know if anything had changed since then. Assuming it hasn't, then returning to Philzam's question about J.Connop's victory medal; it looks very plausible that it's the same man as the one commemorated on the Thiepval memorial, but without checking the SA archives we can't rule out the possibility that there was more than one man with that combination of surname, initial and regiment. Experience of British MIC's certainly bears this out, and there are threads on here all the time asking for advice on how to identify their ancestors from a number of identically-named MIC's.

So it may be the same man, certainly looks plausible, but we can't say for sure without checking to see how many J.Connop's served in the S.African army during WW1, and what units they may have served with, or at least checking a S African census to ascertain how rare his name and initial are.

[SteveE]

I did some research into a number of South African soldiers earlier in the year. There are no online resources that I know of but I did find a very good South African researcher (courtesy of forum member Carl Hoehler) who dug out what I needed as far as service records went. I didn't go as far as asking him to ascertain what their medal entitlement was though.

I agree with headgardener in that it may possibly be the same man but, like most things, the only way to be sure is to follow it through and check the records available.

Steve