Highland Division Flash

[john gregory]

Could any member tell me if this HD flash is 1st WW or 2nd WW and how can you tell which is which, thanks.

[Steven Broomfield]

Based on no evidence whatsoever, I'd say WW2. I've no idea why I say that: it just looks it to me!

[truthergw]

Not really my field but in McCarthy's book, " The Somme: Day by Day account", he uses little 'logos' when referring to the divisions. How accurate these are, I do not know but the ' H ' in his logo is different to the one you have shown.

[chris mccarthy]

The logos used in my book were taken from the Wills cigarette card collection. I agree with Steven, for the same reason!

Chris

[George Armstrong Custer]

I'm no expert on this area, but the HD logo reproduced in the table in Michael Chappell's 'The Somme, Crucible of a British Army' (scan below) is identical to that used by Chris in his book, suggesting that these represent the pattern in use in the Great War. As these differ from the patch posted by John, this suggests his might be of later date.

George

[daggers]

Based on a website about The Reel of the 51st, where WW1 and WW2 versions of the flash are shown, I suggest that the one shown in post #1 is from WW2, after the re-formation of the division. That site states that the sign used in WW1 was also used up to the fall of France.

D

[Steven Broomfield]

I read somewhere that the 51st used a different sign in 1939/40 - a stag's head, or antlers or something. The reason for this was to prevent the Huns from identifying the division by it using the old sign.

In the GW they were known as "Harper's Duds"; in the second they were called "The Highway Decorators" for their habit of painting the HD sign everywhere.

[chris mccarthy]

Just to confuse the issue even more the following is in, 'Divisional and other Signs' by Wheeler-Holohan 1920.

Picture the same as George shows.

This sign explains itself,'HD' for Highland Division, but the H is rather carefully camouflaged. Another variation of the sign was sometime seen in which the H, while attached to the D, was in full block type.

Chris

[john gregory]

Thanks everyone for your replies, JG

[truthergw]

You just can't be too careful, can you? Great book, Chris.

[Grovetown]

In so far as wear on uniform is concerned, this flash IIRC wasn't 'put up' until after the war. I have never seen a verifiably wartime photo of it on a tunic.

Cheers,

GT.

[Malcolm]

In Scottish Units in the World Wars it gives the sign was sometimes depicted ' circularised ' and sometimes in block letters.

The first one shown in post 1 looks similar to the one shown on a 1940 officer. From 1942 it was ' full block letters painted on a white ground for vehicles etc and was worn in red on a blue ground on uniforms'

Aye

Malcolm

[Staffsyeoman]

Sorry to come to this late, but I also feel it's a WW2 variant due to the KD scrim on the back. It

also appears to be of superior manufacture which suggests a private purchase officers' piece to me.

[eltoro1960]

Appreciate this copy of the photo is poor, hoping to get a better scan, but this lad from the 8th RS is wearing the 51HD patch, the photo was teken April,1919 at Haddington when the cadre returned with colours, he is also sporting 4 wound stripes which can be seen on the original picture.

John

[o j kirby]

Hi,

In the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders museum in Stirling castle, there is a late/just post war/army of occupation tunic to the 7th Argylls. This has the circular HD sign with three light blue battalion bars below.

Cheers,

Owain.