SS 'Astrologer', sunk June 1916

[headgardener]

I don't know where to start looking for photos of merchant shipping from WW1. Are there any good archives for this sort of thing? I really don't have much idea about sources of research for WW1 shipping, so any advice would be very gratefully received.

I've looked up details for this ship on Lloyds List and the Mercantile Navy list, so I know that it was a steel-hulled steamer, 912 tons, and was built in 1891. During the war it was employed carrying general cargo and coal from Leith to Dunkirk. Could anyone say whether this was a small or moderately-sized ship? I simply have no idea about tonnage, etc.

It struck a mine and sank off Lowestoft on 26th June 1916. 8 men survived but 11 men, including all the ship's officers, were lost, including one of the men I'm researching for a war memorial project. He was the 2nd Mate. I simply have no idea about Mercantile Marine 'rank', so I'd also be grateful for any comments about the role or duties of a 2nd Mate. His obituary says that he'd obtained his 'Chief Officer's certificate' before the war, which I assume to be a bit like being commissioned as an officer in the Navy. At the time that he was killed he was in the process of obtaining his Master's certificate. He'd already been a seaman for about 10-15 years.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Edit; my man';s name was Thomas Fraser. I have CWGC details for him and the other crew commemorated on the Tower Hill memorial.

[sotonmate]

HG

Have you seen this:

http://wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?11992

2nd Mate is an MN Officer who is third in line of seniority on a cargo ship.

Master - Mate (Chief Officer) - 2nd Mate.

Your man in having a Chief Officer's Ticket could apply for new jobs in that grade.

The same applied once he had his Master's Ticket.

I could have made it more complicated but for once it's straightforward.

From the attached you will see that it's a comparitive minnow in today's terms - about 200 feet long by 30 feet wide and with a draft of 17 feet,or so.

Sotonmate

[headgardener]

Hi Sotonmate,

Thanks very much for that. No, hadn't seen it. Extremely helpful in giving me an idea of the ship's dimensions, now I've got a much better idea of what I'm dealing with. I see that some of the info on that site has been updated quite recently, I wonder if anyone's been diving on it? The details have come from the previous year's Mercantile Navy list; the Master at the time the ship went down was G.M. Telford rather than J.G.Wood.

Regarding MN/MM ranks; simple is good! Any idea of the duties of a 2nd mate on a ship of this type? I'm assuming that he might share responsibility with the mate for charts and navigation, maybe occasionally take the helm. Am I correct in thinking of a Chief Officer's ticket being about the same as being commissioned into one of the services?

Are there any registers of Chief Officers and their certificates?

[centurion]

The same applied once he had his Master's Ticket.

Both before and after the war there were more men with master's tickets than master's positions. My G Uncle had an MT pre war but shipped as first officer pre war (many lines liked this arrangement as if the skipper had an accident or fell ill the 1st officer could complete the voyage rather than having to get to the nearest port an wait for a new master). During the war he had ships of his own (loosing two to U boats) but post war had to revert to sailing as a first officer.

HG helmsmen didn't need to be holders of mates tickets. A ticket holder would stand a watch (ie be in charge of the ship whilst the captain and other officers were off duty or engaged in other tasks)

[Wrecktec]

The ASTROLOGER (Official No.95227) was a 912-ton steam cargo vessel launched on 30 August 1890 by W. Dobson & Co., Newcastle for George Gibson & Co., Leith; she was completed in October 1890 as Yard No.40. She measured|: 210ft x 30ft.1in (64m by 9.16m by 5.23m) and was powered by a 114hp, 3-cylinder triple expansion steam engine that used one boiler. NE Marine Eng Co Ltd at newcastle manufactured the machinery. She had 4 bulkheads, 2 decks, a 24ft poopdeck, 48ft bridgedeck and 26ft forecastle.

She was mined and sank on 26 June 1916, 5 miles SSE of Lowestoft, while voyaging from Leith to Dunkerque, general cargo & coal (the mine laid that same day by UC 1 - Kurt Ramien)

There was a violent explosion under the fore hold at 0530hrs and she sank almost at once. Eight men were picked up out of the water by a fishing boat, the Boatswain being the only officer to be saved. The survivors were landed at lowestoft by a patrol vessel. The ship was carrying 1,200 tons of coal.

I found eleven men who died that day:

ALISON, John 1st Engineer MM SS Astrologer (Leith) killed 26.6.16

CHISHOLM, Alexander, Steward MM SS Astrologer (Leith) killed 26.6.16

FRASER, Thomas 2nd Mate MM SS Astrologer (Leith) killed 26.6.16

HAMILTON, Robert John Assistant Steward MM SS Astrologer (Leith) killed 26.6.16

MACKIE, David 2nd Engineer MM SS Astrologer (Leith) killed 26.6.16

PAXTON, William Walker Donkeyman MM SS Astrologer (Leith) killed 26.6.16

SHUTTLEWORTH, Henry 1st Mate MM SS Astrologer (Leith) killed 26.6.16

STEIL, James Seaman MM SS Astrologer (Leith) killed 26.6.16

SUTHERLAND, Thomas Baird Fireman MM SS Astrologer (Leith) killed 26.6.16

TELFORD, G. M. Master MM Astrologer (Leith) 26.6.16

YOUNG, William Mitchell Fireman MM SS Astrologer (Leith) killed 26.6.16

You can write to the National Maritime Museum at Greenwich and World Ship Society for a photo of the ship

Cheers Ron

[headgardener]

Centurion,

Thanks very much for clarifying that for me. I know very little about MM 'ranks', so that's very helpful.

Silent Warrior,

Thanks for the tips about the NMM and the World Ship Society. I had the list of casualties from the Tower Hill memorial, but I didn't have the snippets about the explosion and the rescue of the survivors. Very interesting, and will definately make it into the finished piece.

[Wrecktec]

Hello Headgardner, bit more info if it is of any use to you?

The wreck of Astrologer lies at 52 25'.561'N 001 48'.406'E in a general depth of 23m

It stands 4.9m high is 27m long by 6.72 m across the beam and lies 034/214-degrees with her bow SW. It on the side of a sandwave - obviously part of the ship is missing or buried.

Kurt Ramien in UC 1 sank the following vessels:

20 Apr 1916 Lodewijk Van Nassau 3,350-tons

2 May 1916 Fridland (d.) 4,960-tons

26 May 1916 El Argentino 6,809-tons

18 Jun 1916 Mendibil-mendi 4,501-tons

26 Jun 1916 Astrologer 912-tons

26 Jun 1916 Tugela 233-tons

28 Jun 1916 Mercurius 129-tons

30 Jun 1916 Whooper 302-tons

16 Jul 1916 Alto 2,266-tons

16 Jul 1916 Mopsa 885-tons

30 Jul 1916 Claudia 1,144-tons

11 Aug 1916 F. Stobart 801-tons

23 Aug 1916 Birch 215-tons

27 Aug 1916 Ocean Plough 99-tons

31 Aug 1916 Tuberose 67-tons

1 Sep 1916 Dronning Maud 1,102-tons

4 Sep 1916 Jessie Nutten 187-tons

Cheers Ron

[headgardener]

Ron,

That's very interesting, and I'll definately record it at the end of the piece I'm writing. But where does such amazingly detailed info come from? Are all wrecks recorded in this way?

One further question, regarding Kurt Ramien's victories; the Astrologer was sunk by a mine, was mine-laying done routinely by submarines? I'd always thought of it being something that was done by ships. I guess I was assuming that subs wouldn't be able to carry many mines, so their 'value' would be very limited in this role.

Thanks for the info you've provided so far. I really appreciate it.

[sotonmate]

HG

Lloyd's War Losses,The First World War by Lloyd's of London Press.

Sotonmate

[Wrecktec]

Hi Headgardner

Info comes from the UK Hydrographic Office at Taunton. All or most wrecks are recorded, but lots are not identified, however the Astrologer has been identified, probably by divers.

Minelaying by German submarines began around mid 1915, SMU UC 1 was commissioned in July 1915 and she was one of the first batch of coastal minelaying UC submarines which carried about 8 - 12 mines. These boats were only about 168-tons and 34m long and they did not carry torpedoes.

Before that time mines were laid by surface warships that could lay hundreds at a time i.e. the 2,200-ton Kaiserlichen Marine minenkreuzer SMS ALBATROSS, carried up to 600 mines, and the 3,470-ton light cruiser SMS STUTTGART was capable of carrying 108 mines, but there were others like SMS NAUTILUS.

Cheers Ron

[headgardener]

Sotonmate and Ron,

Thank you both for your input. I'd never heard of torpedo-less subs before. Seems like a very labour-intensive way of delivering what amounts to a small number of mines. I'd only ever heard of the larger-scale minelaying ships, such as the ones you describe. I suppost the advantage would have been that a sub could get closer to the enemy mainland without being detected. I wonder what the hit/miss ratio was like comparing subs to surface-craft. Well, you learn something new every day. Certainly round here.....

[Wrecktec]

SMS ALBATROSS and the 3,470-ton light cruiser SMS STUTTGART caused havoc between 20 & 30 miles off the Tyne in 1914; dozens of ships were lost through their mines but it was a brave thing to do because Britain ruled the waves in those days;)

Cheers Ron

[sotonmate]

HG

You want to read of the losses from mines which carried on into the 1920s !

Sotonmate