M Collins Gordons

[War13Memorial]

Michael [also known as Mitchell] Collins S/10003 Gordon Highlanders. Died 24/11/1918. Theatre of Death - Home. I presume this means not his home but home in the UK. Can I find out where he died ?. There appears to be no death certificate. Did he die in a military hospital, barracks or somewhere else military ?.

[Verrico2009]

I'm no expert, but I think I've seen reference to this also covering "home waters" so going down at sea is included.

A 22 year old Michael Collins died in Huddersfield in the 3rd quarter of 1918 but can't tell if it's your man or what he'd be doing in West Yorkshire.

[archangel9]

He has 2 MIC's

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/search-results.asp?searchtype=browserefine&query=last_name%3dcollins|scope%3d10013&catid=10&pagenumber=1&querytype=1&mediaarray=*

so he served in a theatre of war. The N Collins card records his 14-15 Star and has "Died on or since 24/11/18".

John

[War13Memorial]

Thanks for your response - I am quite happy with the M Collins I have, it is the definition of Home that I am interested in. Soldiers who died in the Great War says "Theatre of War - Home and Death Location - Home"

Billy.

I'm no expert, but I think I've seen reference to this also covering "home waters" so going down at sea is included.

A 22 year old Michael Collins died in Huddersfield in the 3rd quarter of 1918 but can't tell if it's your man or what he'd be doing in West Yorkshire.

[sotonmate]

BS

Remember that this was the time of the Spanish 'Flu pandemic,which killed more people in a few months than the whole of the Great War managed.

Sotonmate

[War13Memorial]

Thanks for the response. Yes I am aware of how terrible the Spanish Flu was, to survive the War and then die with the flu - hard to comment. Are there no death certificates for these servicemen [and women] who died in a military facility recorded as HOME. Surely everyone had a death certificate - maybe not ?.

Billy

BS

Remember that this was the time of the Spanish 'Flu pandemic,which killed more people in a few months than the whole of the Great War managed.

Sotonmate

[Verrico2009]

According to CWGC he's buried in the Kilconquhar Parish Churchyard, so if you're local perhaps a trawl through the newspaper archives at the time would throw something up? There's another 10 casualties in there and I didn't think bodies were normally brought home so either these are men who presumably died of wounds after returning to the UK or quite possibly as Sotonmate suggests the victims of the Spanish Flu.

[kenf48]

Home in this context means the UK. When a soldier died in the UK his family could choose where he was interred. In this case they brought him home as according to SDGW he was born there, and his parents lived there. SDGW lists 5th Battalion, looking at LLT http://www.1914-1918.net/gordon.htm I suggest his number with the S/ prefix means he went to France with the 8th Bn which was broken up in June 1918 and reduced to a cadre. There is an mic which shows arrival in theatre after 1/1/1916 and BWM and Victory Medal. Soldiers were absorbed into the 1/5th. However CWGC shows he was on the Depot strength at the time of his death. This was the 3rd Bn who were based at Aberdeen throughout the war.

The other (less likely) option was he went to the 3/5th who were in Dreghorn Kilmarnock (ibid). Therefore he may have become ill or been injured while at the Depot in Aberdeen. In England FreeBMD usually finds deaths registered in the area of the Depot.

Unfortunately for Scotland I believe you have to look at Scotlands People for death registration I'm not very familiar with this site but a surname search lists 80 deaths for 1918. In England if I found a Michael in the last quarter in or around Aberdeen (he was probably in a hospital close to the Depot) it would be worth following up..

(There is a Charles and Jane Collins in the 1901 Census who have a sone listed as Mitchell age 4 which if it is your man would make him around 21/22 - unfortunately don't have access to a transcript or much knowledge of Scots geography.)

Of course he may have been in hospital anywhere and was simply on the administrative strength of the Depot - but let's be optimistic!

Ken

The local newspaper would almost certainly reported the funeral

Edited 27 August , 2010 by kenf48

[War13Memorial]

Home in this context means the UK. When a soldier died in the UK his family could choose where he was interred. In this case they brought him home as according to SDGW he was born there, and his parents lived there. SDGW lists 5th Battalion, looking at LLT http://www.1914-1918.net/gordon.htm I suggest his number with the S/ prefix means he went to France with the 8th Bn which was broken up in June 1918 and reduced to a cadre. There is an mic which shows arrival in theatre after 1/1/1916 and BWM and Victory Medal. Soldiers were absorbed into the 1/5th. However CWGC shows he was on the Depot strength at the time of his death. This was the 3rd Bn who were based at Aberdeen throughout the war.

The other (less likely) option was he went to the 3/5th who were in Dreghorn Kilmarnock (ibid). Therefore he may have become ill or been injured while at the Depot in Aberdeen. In England FreeBMD usually finds deaths registered in the area of the Depot.

Unfortunately for Scotland I believe you have to look at Scotlands People for death registration I'm not very familiar with this site but a surname search lists 80 deaths for 1918. In England if I found a Michael in the last quarter in or around Aberdeen (he was probably in a hospital close to the Depot) it would be worth following up..

(There is a Charles and Jane Collins in the 1901 Census who have a sone listed as Mitchell age 4 which if it is your man would make him around 21/22 - unfortunately don't have access to a transcript or much knowledge of Scots geography.)

Of course he may have been in hospital anywhere and was simply on the administrative strength of the Depot - but let's be optimistic!

Ken

The local newspaper would almost certainly reported the funeral

thanks for this Ken. Scotland's People has no listing for death ceritificate for this Michael Collins. GRO has a listing for a Michael Collins in Huddersfield, which I ordered last night, age not the same 1 year out but the only Miachael Collins I saw. I didn't see the one for Aberdeen.

Yes I agree with Charles and Jane as his parents and almost certainly MItchell and Michael are one and the same. Birth Cert 1897 says Michael - 1901 Census says Mitchell [as you say]

The only mention in the local press is 16 March 1916. Mitchell Collins - Carnbee & Arncroach Schools Rool of Honour.

SNWM has him listed as the 5th Bn. Theatre of Death - Home.

thanks again, I live in the area and if I can be of any help in the future please ask

the good thing about Scotland's People is that after buying credits you see and can print off the certificate, much cheaper and easier than down south.

Sandy

[kenf48]

There was a hospital in Huddersfield

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=66223

over 100 deaths are recorded at the local cemetery, presumably they weren't claimed by relatives.

Have you looked in the Scotsman casualty lists?

btw your original post gave his R/No as S/10003

the Medal Cards show as above correspond with CWGC of 10013 but on the M Collins card he is shown as serving in the '1/Gordons'

btw(2) tip- if you click fast reply at bottom of page it saves all the quotes

Good Luck

Ken

[War13Memorial]

thanks again Ken, being a bit of a deltiologist I like the postcard.

His CWGC headstone in Kilconquhar Parish Churchyard records him as S/10013. My OP a typing error or a senior moment.

I wonder what I will receive from GRO.

Sandy

[kenf48]

I wonder what I will receive from GRO.

Sandy

I don't know but surprising what us senior folk find exciting these days

make sure you let us know

Ken

[War13Memorial]

Death Certificate for Michael Collins received. Pte No.10013 5th Gordon Highlanders.

Died of 1) appendicectomy and 2) TB. aged 22

at Bradley Gate War Hospital, Huddersfield. 24/11/1918

Going by his age he must have survived most of the War only to die of TB after the Armistice - what a shame.

Thanks again to all who helped.

Billy