7 Bn Yorks & Lancs

[jim489558]

I am researching Cpl Bernard HARVEY MM, 7 Bn Yorks & Lancs who died of wounds 25 March 1918. Any ideas where I can find his MM citation or where he was on or just before his death?

[SWorrall]

7 York & Lancaster were the pioneer battalion of the 17th (Northern) division from March 1915 until the end of the war.

From 21st - 23rd March 1918 the division was part of V corps in Byng's 3rd Army, fighting at the Battle of Saint-Quentin, part of the Kaiserschlacht offensive (Operation Michael).

It stayed in the same corps and army for the next phase of 'Michael', termed the Battle of Bapaume, from 24 - 25 March 1918.

The records of 7 Y & L are held at the National Archives under WO 95/1995. These do not appear to have been digitised yet, a shame because you could download a PDF copy for only £3.50

SDGW has him down as Acting/Corporal Bernard Harvey #13304 ; 7 York and Lancaster ; born Shireoaks, Nottingham ; enlisted Rotherham ; residence Dinnington, Yorks. Died of wounds 25/03/1918 in France & Flanders.

I'll see what more I can get about the whereabouts of the battalion around that date, but such was the confusion in the region after Michael started on March 21st 1918 that he may well have become detached from his battalion.

[Chris Noble]

Hi Jim.

I have the War Diary which i photographed earlier this week but still on a memory card at present.

Once uploaded, i can post or forward on.

All the best.

Chris.

[SWorrall]

7 York & Lancaster were on the front line on March 25th.

They were fighting as an element of 50 Brigade, part of the 17 (Northern) division previously mentioned.

They seem to have been fighting as part of a hotch-potch battlegroup made up from whatever remained of the 50 Brigade, plus themselves and also 77 Royal Enginees (a company-sized formation IIRC ?).

Page 476 of the Official History 1918 Vol 1 records in a footnote that this force (called the 50th Brigade group) numbered only about 250 men, all that was left of an entire brigade with additions from division HQ. The actions fought on this sector are covered in that volume pp 475 - 481 and relate how these units made a fighting withdrawal to the crossings of the River Ancre.

The location of this composite unit early on the 25th March was on the old Somme battlefields, specifically they were halfway between Eaucourt l'Abbaye and Flers. Their front ran from north-east to south-west and they were facing south-east towards the gap between Flers & Gueudecourt. On their right (south-west) was the Anson battalion of the 63rd (Royal Naval) division. To their left was the 23rd Royal Fusiliers of the 99 Brigade.

By the following day Albert had been captured and the 17th had been withdrawn from the immediate fighting front. The remnant of the division was located in the area Warloy, Baizieux, Henencourt to the west of Albert. 50th brigade had ceased to exist as a fighting force.

I've also found his medal roll index card in Ancestry. It indicates the award of the MM. There seems to be a reference 0/2/102 B9 page 1003 but I'm afraid this means little to me. Perhaps someone else here can assist further in interpreting this?

In any case the MM was gazetted (not the same as the date he earned it!) in London Gazette # 34024 dated December 11th 1917.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/30424/supplements/13013

He's the 3rd entry on the page.

Hope this helps.

[Roger Thompson]

Hi SWorrall,

Indeed it also helps me as well it places also where my granddad was as he was in the same Battalion although a signaller attached to the Royal Engineers.

As we all know even the Pioneers signallers and Enineers where also fighting men and bore arms hence the hotch pot.

What is the title of the official history book please.

Cheers Roger.

[Roger Thompson]

Hi there Jim,

On that day all 3 companies took a battering, recorded are 56 wounded, 4 killed, 11 missing and thats only them that they recorded.

Cpl Bernard Harvey MM was in "C" company, to find out how he gained his MM you might have to look in the local paper for Dinnington or the local daily paper for Rotherham.

Cheers Roger.

[connaughtranger]

Hi

A few pieces of information from Gilvary:

1. The then Private B Harvey of 'C' Company was awarded the MM on 16th November 1917. At this time the Battalion was involved in supervising Labour Companies, construction of large ammunition sidings at Lunaville and the maintenance and patrol of track. The railway was much used by ambulance trains transporting wounded to the CCS at Dawson's Corner. The area was regularly subjected to gas shelling. Every few days infantry attacks took place, of which the Battalion sometimes had little knowledge, and was consequently caught up in the resultant barrages. According to Galvary, the daily casualties were 10-20, though an anonymous editor of his work notes that on one day the total reached 59. The enemy's growing use of long-range guns and bombing aircraft didn't help. Work in this sector continued until the 19th November. It's likely that he would have received his MM for his outstanding work, over a period of time, in the face of enemy fire; the Battalion didn't take part in any offensive or defensive action during this time.

2. In the Roll of Honour A/Cpl B Harvey is recorded as 'believed killed' 25/3/18 and shown as Missing. The history was published in 1921 so further evidence may have been brought to light to show him as having DOW.

On 24th March the Battalion withdrew to the village of Gueudecourt to cover the retirement of the 50 Bde (Gilvary's footnote points out that, while here, one Company was able to change its underlinen from the store of an abandoned CCS. Another anonymous editor blows the whistle on this company, revealing that they also "pinched all the cigarettes out of the EFC" (and why not???)

3. March 25th: the enemy began to push forward and the Battalion was faced with overwhelming odds and a field of fire of 80 yards. At 9 a.m. the enemy opened fire. Wild shooting ensued for about 45 minutes and then the Germans appeared 1500 yards away. His erratic shooting helped the Battalion and some Dorsets on their left to cover a further retreat. From this point on, until the Ancre was crossed, they were the last troops of the British line.

Major Hammett of the Battalion assembled a motley bunch at Le Sars (the editor adding "the lame, sick and weary, shoe makers, tailors and Officers' servants all did duty") and formed an outpost on the high ground east of the Ancre.

The pressure of the advancing enemy and the danger of being surrounded caused a further retirement. Lt Clement remained with a party to check the advance long enough for the remainder to cross the Ancre close to Beaumont Hamel. A tree trunk acted as a bridge and water cress growing in the river was greedily eaten by men who'd had no food for 24 hours. The composite force conformed then moved back to Hennencourt via Englebelmer, Forceville and Warloy.

[Roger Thompson]

Hi connaughtstranger, your in box appears full I need to send you a PM.

Cheers Roger.

[connaughtranger]

Hi connaughtstranger, your in box appears full I need to send you a PM.

Cheers Roger.

Hi

I've cleared a space

[jim489558]

Hi

A few pieces of information from Gilvary:

1. The then Private B Harvey of 'C' Company was awarded the MM on 16th November 1917. At this time the Battalion was involved in supervising Labour Companies, construction of large ammunition sidings at Lunaville and the maintenance and patrol of track. The railway was much used by ambulance trains transporting wounded to the CCS at Dawson's Corner. The area was regularly subjected to gas shelling. Every few days infantry attacks took place, of which the Battalion sometimes had little knowledge, and was consequently caught up in the resultant barrages. According to Galvary, the daily casualties were 10-20, though an anonymous editor of his work notes that on one day the total reached 59. The enemy's growing use of long-range guns and bombing aircraft didn't help. Work in this sector continued until the 19th November. It's likely that he would have received his MM for his outstanding work, over a period of time, in the face of enemy fire; the Battalion didn't take part in any offensive or defensive action during this time.

2. In the Roll of Honour A/Cpl B Harvey is recorded as 'believed killed' 25/3/18 and shown as Missing. The history was published in 1921 so further evidence may have been brought to light to show him as having DOW.

On 24th March the Battalion withdrew to the village of Gueudecourt to cover the retirement of the 50 Bde (Gilvary's footnote points out that, while here, one Company was able to change its underlinen from the store of an abandoned CCS. Another anonymous editor blows the whistle on this company, revealing that they also "pinched all the cigarettes out of the EFC" (and why not???)

3. March 25th: the enemy began to push forward and the Battalion was faced with overwhelming odds and a field of fire of 80 yards. At 9 a.m. the enemy opened fire. Wild shooting ensued for about 45 minutes and then the Germans appeared 1500 yards away. His erratic shooting helped the Battalion and some Dorsets on their left to cover a further retreat. From this point on, until the Ancre was crossed, they were the last troops of the British line.

Major Hammett of the Battalion assembled a motley bunch at Le Sars (the editor adding "the lame, sick and weary, shoe makers, tailors and Officers' servants all did duty") and formed an outpost on the high ground east of the Ancre.

The pressure of the advancing enemy and the danger of being surrounded caused a further retirement. Lt Clement remained with a party to check the advance long enough for the remainder to cross the Ancre close to Beaumont Hamel. A tree trunk acted as a bridge and water cress growing in the river was greedily eaten by men who'd had no food for 24 hours. The composite force conformed then moved back to Hennencourt via Englebelmer, Forceville and Warloy.

Many thanks to you and all who have helped, I am amazed by peoples willingness to help, cheers me up in this selfish world.

Jim MacKenzie (Ex RE)

[SWorrall]

Hi SWorrall,

Indeed it also helps me as well it places also where my granddad was as he was in the same Battalion although a signaller attached to the Royal Engineers.

As we all know even the Pioneers signallers and Enineers where also fighting men and bore arms hence the hotch pot.

What is the title of the official history book please.

Cheers Roger.

Official History of the Great War: Operations in France & Belgium: 1918 Vol 1 by Brig-Gen J. E. Edmonds ISBN: 9781845747251 available from Naval & Military Press and other booksellers.

Royal Signals was not formed into a separate corps until 1920. During WW1 it was fully part of the Royal Engineers.