inthefootsteps Posted 30 July , 2010 Share Posted 30 July , 2010 I am looking for the details of the Pioneer Battalion Commanding Officers on the Somme in 1916. Can anyone help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyneside Chinaman Posted 30 July , 2010 Share Posted 30 July , 2010 Hi,, 17/NF CAPT TEMP LT COL PEARS M L 18/NF LT COL J SHAKESPEARE 19/NF MAJ TEMP LT COL DANIELL DSO 22/DLI MAJ TEMP LT COL MORGAN DSO REGARDS JOHN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Noble Posted 30 July , 2010 Share Posted 30 July , 2010 Lieutenant-Colonel Sir E.H.St. L. Clarke, Officer Commanding, 21st (Service) Battalion, (Wool and Textile Pioneers), West Yorkshire Regiment. Best wishes. Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthefootsteps Posted 30 July , 2010 Author Share Posted 30 July , 2010 Hi John and Chris, Many thanks for the information. I am working on a series of orders of battle for the somme 1916 and these details will help me fill in the few missing gaps I have at present. Best Regards Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 31 July , 2010 Share Posted 31 July , 2010 Ian, Lieut-Col. W. Gemmill,D.S.O. 8th Royal Scots. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthefootsteps Posted 31 July , 2010 Author Share Posted 31 July , 2010 George, Thank you for the information. All, At present I am looking for the names of the following Pioneers Battalion Commanding Officers: - 18th (Eastern) Division Pioneers 8th (Service) Battalion (Pioneers), the Royal Sussex Regiment 21st Division 14th (Service) Battalion (Pioneers), the Northumberland Fusiliers 17th (Northern) Division 7th (Service) Battalion (Pioneers), the York & Lancaster Regiment 19th (Western) Division 5th (Service) Battalion (Pioneers), the South Wales Borderers 4th Division 21st (Service) Battalion (Pioneers), the West Yorkshire Regiment 31st Division 12th (Service) Battaion (Pioneers), the King’s Own Yorkshire Light Infantry 36th (Ulster) Division 16th (Service) Battalion (2nd County Down) (Pioneers), the Royal Irish Rifles 56th Division 1/5th Battalion (Pioneers), the Cheshire Regiment In addition I am also looking for the names of these other commanding officers: - 7th Division 2nd Battalion, the Royal Irish Regiment 17th (Northern) Division 7th (Service) Battalion, the East Yorkshire Regiment 6th (Service) Battalion, the Dorsetshire Regiment 7th (Service) Battalion, the Lincolnshire Regiment 7th (Service) Battalion, the Border Regiment 8th (Service) Battalion, the South Staffordshire Regiment 10th (Service) Battalion, the Sherwood Foresters (Nottinghamshire & Derbyshire Regiment) 9th (Service) Battalion, the Northumberland Fusiliers 10th (Service) Battalion, the Lancashire Fusiliers 9th (Service) Battalion, the Duke of Wellington's Regiment 12th (Service) Battalion, the Manchester Regiment 19th (Western) Division 7th (Service) Battalion, the King's Own (Royal Lancaster) Regiment 7th (Service) Battalion, the East Lancashire Regiment 31st Division 12th (Service) Battalion, the East Yorkshire Regiment (Hull Sportsmen) 48th Division 1/5th Battalion, the Royal Warwickshire Regiment 1/7th Battalion, the Royal Warwickshire Regiment 1/4th Battalion, the Gloucestershire Regiment 1/7th Battalion, the Worcestershire Regiment 1/8th Battalion, the Worcestershire Regiment 1/5th Battalion, the Gloucestershire Regiment 1/4th Battalion, the Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire Light Infantry 1/4th Battalion, the Royal Berkshire Regiment 32nd Division 2nd Battalion, the King’s Own Yorkshire Light Infantry 36th (Ulster) Division 8th (Service) Battalion, the Royal Irish Rifles (East Belfast) 14th (Service) Battalion (Belfast Young Citizens), the Royal Irish Rifles 49th Division 1/5th Battalion, the West Yorkshire Regiment 1/6th Battalion, the West Yorkshire Regiment 1/7th Battalion, the West Yorkshire Regiment 1/8th Battalion, the West Yorkshire Regiment 1/4th Battalion, the Duke of Wellington's 1/5th Battalion, the Duke of Wellington's 1/6th Battalion, the Duke of Wellington's 1/7th Battalion, the Duke of Wellington's 1/4th Battalion, the King's Own Yorkshire LI 1/5th Battalion, the King's Own Yorkshire LI 1/4th Battalion, the York & Lancaster Regiment 1/5th Battalion, the York & Lancaster Regiment Any help would be appreciated. Once I have completed the 1st July 1916 Order of Battle I will be starting work on compiling the OOB for the Divisions that subsequently enter the battle in the Somme 1916 July to November period. Many Thanks Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 31 July , 2010 Share Posted 31 July , 2010 Not a 1st of July man, but the as Pioneers of 12th Division the 5th Northamptons were in action at Ovillers/Avleuy from the 2nd. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Noble Posted 31 July , 2010 Share Posted 31 July , 2010 12th Battalion, King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry, 31st Division: Lieutenant-Colonel E.L. Chambers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthefootsteps Posted 1 August , 2010 Author Share Posted 1 August , 2010 Chris / Steve, Many Thanks Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmoha Posted 1 August , 2010 Share Posted 1 August , 2010 10th Bttn, Sherwood Foresters was commanded by Lt Col. W E Banbury (formerly Indian Army) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthefootsteps Posted 1 August , 2010 Author Share Posted 1 August , 2010 Many thanks guys, I am still looking for the names of the following Pioneers Battalion Commanding Officers: - 18th (Eastern) Division Pioneers 8th (Service) Battalion (Pioneers), the Royal Sussex Regiment 21st Division 14th (Service) Battalion (Pioneers), the Northumberland Fusiliers 17th (Northern) Division 7th (Service) Battalion (Pioneers), the York & Lancaster Regiment 19th (Western) Division 5th (Service) Battalion (Pioneers), the South Wales Borderers 4th Division 21st (Service) Battalion (Pioneers), the West Yorkshire Regiment 36th (Ulster) Division 16th (Service) Battalion (2nd County Down) (Pioneers), the Royal Irish Rifles 56th Division 1/5th Battalion (Pioneers), the Cheshire Regiment Also the Commanding Officers of: - 7th Division 2nd Battalion, the Royal Irish Regiment 17th (Northern) Division 7th (Service) Battalion, the East Yorkshire Regiment 6th (Service) Battalion, the Dorsetshire Regiment 7th (Service) Battalion, the Lincolnshire Regiment 7th (Service) Battalion, the Border Regiment 8th (Service) Battalion, the South Staffordshire Regiment 9th (Service) Battalion, the Northumberland Fusiliers 10th (Service) Battalion, the Lancashire Fusiliers 9th (Service) Battalion, the Duke of Wellington's Regiment 12th (Service) Battalion, the Manchester Regiment 19th (Western) Division 7th (Service) Battalion, the King's Own (Royal Lancaster) Regiment 7th (Service) Battalion, the East Lancashire Regiment 31st Division 12th (Service) Battalion, the East Yorkshire Regiment (Hull Sportsmen) 32nd Division 2nd Battalion, the King’s Own Yorkshire Light Infantry 36th (Ulster) Division 8th (Service) Battalion, the Royal Irish Rifles (East Belfast) 14th (Service) Battalion (Belfast Young Citizens), the Royal Irish Rifles 48th Division 1/5th Battalion, the Royal Warwickshire Regiment 1/7th Battalion, the Royal Warwickshire Regiment 1/4th Battalion, the Gloucestershire Regiment 1/7th Battalion, the Worcestershire Regiment 1/8th Battalion, the Worcestershire Regiment 1/5th Battalion, the Gloucestershire Regiment 1/4th Battalion, the Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire Light Infantry 1/4th Battalion, the Royal Berkshire Regiment 49th Division 1/5th Battalion, the West Yorkshire Regiment 1/6th Battalion, the West Yorkshire Regiment 1/7th Battalion, the West Yorkshire Regiment 1/8th Battalion, the West Yorkshire Regiment 1/4th Battalion, the Duke of Wellington's 1/5th Battalion, the Duke of Wellington's 1/6th Battalion, the Duke of Wellington's 1/7th Battalion, the Duke of Wellington's 1/4th Battalion, the King's Own Yorkshire LI 1/5th Battalion, the King's Own Yorkshire LI 1/4th Battalion, the York & Lancaster Regiment 1/5th Battalion, the York & Lancaster Regiment Once I have completed the 1st July 1916 Order of Battle I will be starting work on compiling the OOB for the Divisions that subsequently enter the battle in the Somme 1916 July to November period. Many Thanks Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 1 August , 2010 Share Posted 1 August , 2010 Ian, The 8th Royal Scots,Pioneer Battalion to the 51st(Highland)Division joined the offensive on 21st July 1916 and were withdrawn on the 5th August. The Battalion served again,on the Somme, between 18 October and 27 November 1916. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmac Posted 1 August , 2010 Share Posted 1 August , 2010 1/5th Cheshire Regt Lt Col J E G Groves 6th Dorsetshire Regt Lt Col Cecil Alured Rowley 12th East Yorkshire Regt (Hull Sportsmen) Lt Col Harold Robinson Pease 1/5th York and Lancaster Regt Lt Col Francis Holden Shuttleworth Rendall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthefootsteps Posted 1 August , 2010 Author Share Posted 1 August , 2010 Hi All, Many thanks for the help to-date. Use the following link to access the first of the Order of Battles: - http://www.inthefootsteps.com/images/somme/BEF-OOB.pdf Regards Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthefootsteps Posted 1 August , 2010 Author Share Posted 1 August , 2010 Follow this link for an example of a Corps OOB. I hope that you find these interesting. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Edwards Posted 1 August , 2010 Share Posted 1 August , 2010 Why were some battalions designated as 'Pioneers' What did they do that was different to other battalions. Would they have taken part in the July 1st Somme attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmac Posted 1 August , 2010 Share Posted 1 August , 2010 They did digging, wiring, preparing of MG/mortar positions, etc. Some would have gone forward. 1/5th Cheshire's jobs at Gommecourt were blowing up barricades on roads to allow transport to use them, preparation of new strongpoints in enemy lines, supervising reversing of trenches. RE were also involved. Cheshires ended up mainly fighting alongside the infantry as, apart from some of the barricades they never reached the positions designated for the other tasks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthefootsteps Posted 1 August , 2010 Author Share Posted 1 August , 2010 Links to the sample OOB are as follows: - BEF Order of Battle XIII Corps Order of Battle 9th (Scottish) Division Regards Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 2 August , 2010 Share Posted 2 August , 2010 Why were some battalions designated as 'Pioneers' What did they do that was different to other battalions. Would they have taken part in the July 1st Somme attack. Tony, Whilst not 1st July. This was the 8th Royal Scots role in the November assault on Beaumont Hamel,from the Battalion History. "The work of the Battalion during the attack was to be (1) the consolidation of the final objective;(2)the linking up,by digging new communication trenches of various saps,with the enemy front line." George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Edwards Posted 2 August , 2010 Share Posted 2 August , 2010 Thanks BMAC and Dycer for increasing my understanding of the Pioneer role. Would there have been a reason for designating a battalion as Pioneers such as a larger proportion of the men came from manual labour backgrounds than say units recruited from cities or was it because the Brigade or Division Commander so ordained.I note that in 18th Eastern Division 54th Brigade, the 8th (Service ) Battalion Royal Sussex Regt Became Pioneers from Feb 1915 for the rest of the war. My interest is because of the type of warfare on the Western Front, pioneers must have made a huge contribution. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 2 August , 2010 Share Posted 2 August , 2010 They also had the role of "Assault Pioneers" - basically in two jobs 1) Digging of communication trenches across No Mans Land so that reinforcements and supplies could be got to the newly captured trenches and make consolidation of the positions easier. 2) Turning captured enemy trenches around so that they had firesteps, etc. facing towards the Germans. Pioneer battalions were Divisional battalions rather than being allocated to a Brigade, and their job was so useful that even when the Division went into Reserve they were kept in or around the front lines by the Corps command. It seems to me that the Pioneers actually spent a good deal more time in and around the area of the front lines than most of the Infantry battalions. The battallion history of the 5th Northamptons also comments on the fact that, even when the strength of Infantry battalions was 75% of full establishment, they were kept at full establishment of 1,000 men or even more - their strength was in excess of 1200 and some points. Incidentally the 5th Northamptons originally seem to have been about 50% Eastenders and 50% rural Northamptonshire men, and most of those were August 1914 enlistees - the "keen as mustard to join up" men. I wonder what they thought of not ending up as front line infantry? Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmac Posted 2 August , 2010 Share Posted 2 August , 2010 There was a shortage of Labour battalions and the Pioneers took on similar tasks as well as those involved in any advance. In the case of the 1/5th Cheshires their CO, Lt Col Groves, volunteered them for the role. He was already unloved by his junior officers and this decision made him hugely unpopular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connaughtranger Posted 2 August , 2010 Share Posted 2 August , 2010 Hi 7th Y & L - Col H N Byass CMG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connaughtranger Posted 2 August , 2010 Share Posted 2 August , 2010 1/4th KOYLI - Lt Col H J Haslegrave CMG 1/5th KOYLI - Lt Col C C Moxon CMG DSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connaughtranger Posted 2 August , 2010 Share Posted 2 August , 2010 1/5th WYR - Lt Col C E Woods 1/6th WYR - Lt Col H O Wade 1/7th WYR - Lt Col A E Kirk 1/8th WYR - Lt Col J W Alexander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now