Moriaty Posted 27 July , 2010 Share Posted 27 July , 2010 Can anyone clarify the real age of 2055 Private Cecil Morgan whose real name was Colin Meyers?Having looked at the Australian Military Records, Colin Meyers initially applied to join up under his real name in October 1915 and gave his age as 19 years and 2 months, his parents having signed a consent form. He was rejected on medical grounds. A month later he applied under the name of Cecil Morgan and said he was 21 years and 2 months, he was accepted.On the AIF database his age at embarkation is given as 21, but it states that from cemetery records he was 17. The CWGC database says his age was 16.Can anyone clarify? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 27 July , 2010 Share Posted 27 July , 2010 The online BDM's only give the year which was 1899. Bright Blessings Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 28 July , 2010 Share Posted 28 July , 2010 Interestingly, when he first tried to enlist under his own name in October 1915, he gave his age as 19 yrs, 2 months. One month later in November, when he enlisted as Cecil Morgan, he gave his age as 21 yrs, 3 months. What seems apparant from this is that although he changed the 'year' of his birth, he was still calculating it based on the correct day and month. If we forget the year, both these applications to enlist suggest his date of birth to have fallen in August. Therefore, knowing his real year of birth from the BDM index, we can make the pretty strong assumption that he was born in August 1899. If this is the case, then when he enlisted in Nov 1915 he was really 16 yrs, 3 months old and when he died in July 1916 he was 16 yrs, 11 months old. Cheers, Tim L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriaty Posted 28 July , 2010 Author Share Posted 28 July , 2010 Thanks for that, I hadnt been able to track his date of birth. I saw his headstone at Pheasant Wood on Sunday and was intrigued by the age 16. Moriaty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 28 July , 2010 Share Posted 28 July , 2010 In essence he was the second youngest to be KIA at Fromelles. The other is John Gordon who was the youngest WW1 AIF soldier to be KIA at 15 years 10 months and 1 day. Sadly, at this point in time it looks like he may not be identified. Bright Blessings Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 29 July , 2010 Share Posted 29 July , 2010 Not much older than my son. Another grave that I shall give special attention to at Fromelles. I hope some of the older guys gave him some support and a friendly arm around the shoulder on the day. (I would imagine that the forensic pathologist may have some idea of who the 15 year old is by his bone development and teeth) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 30 July , 2010 Share Posted 30 July , 2010 we would hope so Ian. If we look at the boys of today that are the same age they would never have that kind of courage and parents would never let them enlist. Bright Blessings Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 30 July , 2010 Share Posted 30 July , 2010 we would hope so Ian. If we look at the boys of today that are the same age they would never have that kind of courage and parents would never let them enlist. Bright Blessings Sandra Sandra, Whilst I would agree with your statement about the parents, I think the courage of young men is a constant when given good leadership - as witnessed by the Allied casualties in Afganistan and the determination to "crack on" in the face of this adversity. It is fortunate that most young men firmly believe that they are immortal and are convinced that they are destined to do great things - although these attitudes of mind can have unfortunate consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 30 July , 2010 Share Posted 30 July , 2010 not that many 16 year olds here have that kind of courage. The ones that do are rare indeed. Bright Blessings Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 30 July , 2010 Share Posted 30 July , 2010 Sandra, I think our young people get a bit of a raw deal. As an example , I accompanied my mother-in-law recently when she received the Elizabeth Cross in memory of her first husband who was killed in Korea. Also at the ceremony was a Mum who was receiving the same award in memory of a young son killed in Afghanistan 2 years ago. With her at the ceremony was her 16 year old son in his army cadet's uniform. He was still determined to be a soldier. Brave? Foolhardy? I don't know. Living close to the Headley Court rehabilitation centre in Surrey, I regularly see maimed young soldiers out shopping. They appear cheerful and optimistic. I admire them and respect them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 30 July , 2010 Share Posted 30 July , 2010 Definitely some great young men out there. Bright Blessings Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 31 July , 2010 Share Posted 31 July , 2010 Definitely some great young men out there. Bright Blessings Sandra Absolutely - also some wrong 'uns . But it was ever thus. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCurragh Posted 6 August , 2010 Share Posted 6 August , 2010 Reply from forum member Sozuga, via "Report this Post" I have been informed of a discussion involving Cecil Morgan (#2055) killed at Fromelles 19th July 1916. I am the uncle of Cecil Morgan. His real name was Colin Meyers. Born on 3rd August, 1899 at Goulbourn. We have his birth certificate. He first attempted to join the army on 14th October 1915 but, according to army documents, was found to be medically unfit though his family always said he was found and brought back. In the army documents he stated his age as 19 and had parental consent, both untrue. He then rejoined on 23rd November 1915 but this time changing his name to Cecil Morgan and age 21. He sailed from Australia on 1st April 1916 and landed at Marseilles on 23rd June 1916. He was killed on 19th or 20th July 1916 at age 16, just two weeks short of his 17th birthday. Three generations of my family attended the dedication of the Fromelles cemetery this year on 19th July. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriaty Posted 6 August , 2010 Author Share Posted 6 August , 2010 Thanks so much for this, I saw the family wreaths when I visited Fromelles just days after the opening ceremony. As it is over ninety years since Colin died, wouldnt the person making the post be a cousin rather than his uncle? Moriaty PS I notice that today is three days after Colin 101st birthday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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