spiritbird Posted 25 July , 2010 Share Posted 25 July , 2010 Can someone tell me the position of the !st Battalion South Wales Borderers in particular the whereabouts of 6513 Private Edgar Charles Hooper on September 26th 1914 the day he died. I know where his name is on a memorial but not the area in which he was fighting. So far I have been unable to find any record of the battle that day. Any information would help as I would like to make one last trip to the area. I am 67 yrs old and he was my paternal grandfather. My father was twelve months old on that day. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 25 July , 2010 Share Posted 25 July , 2010 Spiritbird Your grandfather was killed in a smaller action after the Battle of the Marne (which took place from 7-10 Sept 1914). Then followed the Battle of the Aisne from 12-15 Sept,and then some subsidiary actions, Aisne Heights on 20 Sept,and the ACTION OF CHIVY on the 26th,the day he was killed in action. So he was in the vicinity of a small village called CHIVY-LES-ETOUVELLES when he died. Some of his colleagues from the 1 SWB were buried there with German soldiers,but were later,after the Armistice moved,as many smaller cemeteries were, to VENDRESSE British Cemetery. Today his comrades killed on the same day,and others from earlier in the month, lay there. Lieutenant COKER (Grave IB8) and Private PETTIT (Grave IIC5) died on the same day. Three others killed in mid-Sept ( Lieut.JOHNSON 14th: Grave IVE3) ( Private JARMAN 15th: Grave IC18) and (Private MEREDITH 18th: Grave IVC4). COKER and PETTITs graves at VENDRESSE would at least be a focus for your pilgrimage.Vendresse is about 10 miles slightly east of south of LAON on the D967 from that city. CHIVY-les-ETOUVELLES is around 4 miles south of LAON on the N7 route.Both can be reached from the main Calais to Reims road A26/E17 and off at LAON. The Battalion War Diary which is at Kew Archives under WO95/1280 will show the detail of their positions on the day. It is a digital copy and you could pay 3.50 for it's download so that you can read it from the start of the war. In any case as I am going to Kew this week I will see if I can copy the contents for September 1914. Best wishes Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritbird Posted 26 July , 2010 Author Share Posted 26 July , 2010 Spiritbird Your grandfather was killed in a smaller action after the Battle of the Marne (which took place from 7-10 Sept 1914). Then followed the Battle of the Aisne from 12-15 Sept,and then some subsidiary actions, Aisne Heights on 20 Sept,and the ACTION OF CHIVY on the 26th,the day he was killed in action. So he was in the vicinity of a small village called CHIVY-LES-ETOUVELLES when he died. Some of his colleagues from the 1 SWB were buried there with German soldiers,but were later,after the Armistice moved,as many smaller cemeteries were, to VENDRESSE British Cemetery. Today his comrades killed on the same day,and others from earlier in the month, lay there. Lieutenant COKER (Grave IB8) and Private PETTIT (Grave IIC5) died on the same day. Three others killed in mid-Sept ( Lieut.JOHNSON 14th: Grave IVE3) ( Private JARMAN 15th: Grave IC18) and (Private MEREDITH 18th: Grave IVC4). COKER and PETTITs graves at VENDRESSE would at least be a focus for your pilgrimage.Vendresse is about 10 miles slightly east of south of LAON on the D967 from that city. CHIVY-les-ETOUVELLES is around 4 miles south of LAON on the N7 route.Both can be reached from the main Calais to Reims road A26/E17 and off at LAON. The Battalion War Diary which is at Kew Archives under WO95/1280 will show the detail of their positions on the day. It is a digital copy and you could pay 3.50 for it's download so that you can read it from the start of the war. In any case as I am going to Kew this week I will see if I can copy the contents for September 1914. Best wishes Sotonmate Sir you are a gentleman Thank you for responding so soon. Any information will be gratefully received. I would dearly love to make one last visit to be as near as possible to the grandfather I never knew and to lay flowers for my father. I have been to the area a couple of times and to the memorial at La Ferte- Souse-Jouarre, each time an emotional visit, but I feel the need to make one last effort to be as near the original site as possible Your information is the bes that I have read so far and at least gives me a definate area. I hope your visit to Kew proves to be fruitful for you. Best wishes Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 26 July , 2010 Share Posted 26 July , 2010 Ed All is not yet completely lost. Whilst your Grandfather is only remembered on a Memorial there is a possibility that his grave might be revealed by the current sifting of German burial records which are held by the Red Cross in Geneva. These records were,until recent years,laying unknown in Geneva and the plan is now to reveal their content by 2014,the centenary of the start of the Great War. It may be that he was simply lost,it may also be that he wasn't,as many of our casualties were buried by the enemy and a record kept: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1161810/Unknown-longer-thousands-ww1-dead-identified.html Keep your eyes open for this later ! Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritbird Posted 26 July , 2010 Author Share Posted 26 July , 2010 Ed All is not yet completely lost. Whilst your Grandfather is only remembered on a Memorial there is a possibility that his grave might be revealed by the current sifting of German burial records which are held by the Red Cross in Geneva. These records were,until recent years,laying unknown in Geneva and the plan is now to reveal their content by 2014,the centenary of the start of the Great War. It may be that he was simply lost,it may also be that he wasn't,as many of our casualties were buried by the enemy and a record kept: http://www.dailymail...identified.html Keep your eyes open for this later ! Sotonmate I guess I'd bettr keep on living then, it's just something I feel I have to do. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amor Posted 26 July , 2010 Share Posted 26 July , 2010 Apologies if this is common knowledge but I was completely unaware that this archive existed. I have applied online with the Red Cross for any information they may have on my Great Uncle - research costs for WW1 are 200 Swiss Francs. You can find it here: http://www.icrc.org/eng/contact-archives Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritbird Posted 27 July , 2010 Author Share Posted 27 July , 2010 Apologies if this is common knowledge but I was completely unaware that this archive existed. I have applied online with the Red Cross for any information they may have on my Great Uncle - research costs for WW1 are 200 Swiss Francs. You can find it here: http://www.icrc.org/...ontact-archives Rgds Many thanks for that information I did not know that you could apply to the Red Cross records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 27 July , 2010 Share Posted 27 July , 2010 Ed I am not in the know on this matter of the RC helping you find someone from a conflict.In the case of your Grandad I would be inclined to hold my SF200 until I was sure they had done all of the research into the German burial records,which I can't see that they have finished yet. You may get more comment here on the current position,I would certainly keep it under review. I have some pages of info for you re the fighting around CHIVY-LES_ETOUVELLES and will work on it and send it soon. It includes a diagram of the position of the four Companies of the SWB in mid September in the village and another on the 22nd to the E of CHIVY and towards Vendresse. It might be better if you send me your address by PM here and I will post four pages of narrative for the period. Your GF seems to have been one of several posted as missing,though not named specifically. It mentions the names i have posted here before.It seems lucky for you that there is someone's published Diary of the time included in the War Diary. I should also point out,as I have already,that the War Diary is downloadable for 3.50 which will give you his experiences from his arrival in France,so you might like to do this. Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritbird Posted 30 July , 2010 Author Share Posted 30 July , 2010 I have a site as follows for further information batman1.club.fr/edmoch21 I am not sure how I got it but it does have Military Operations France and Belgium 1914 .Chapter xx The Battle of the Aisn 14th Sept The fight for the Chemin Des Dames 15 pages Followed by Chapter xx1 Last days on The Aisne 14 pages up to 27th Sept Compiled by Brigadier-General Sir James E Edmonds May be of interest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 30 July , 2010 Share Posted 30 July , 2010 Ed The site you quote is not appearing,can you check it ? Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritbird Posted 2 August , 2010 Author Share Posted 2 August , 2010 could be http://batmarn1.club.fr/edmoch20.htm not very clear on my printout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 4 August , 2010 Share Posted 4 August , 2010 Ed Still no link ! Hope you have received the four pages I mailed last Thursday. Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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