Eating Cats in the Trenches

[ianw]

I would like to nominate this thread for classic status.

Reading at through as a "neutral" has produced a number of good laughs.

[Rob Connolly]

What iamw said.

I'm not sure if At Home Dad is a po-faced ****-stirrer or a dead-pan comic genius, but this thread really is the cat's whiskers!

Er - ah - that is -

[dfaulder]

>><<

I would suggest that the easiest way to transport cats from the trenches to the customer was by "kipper herding". Using this technique a man trailing a fine Manx kipper behind him could possibly move two to three hundred cats a night.

>><<

I would suggest that the authorities dis-approved of this; I seem to remember seeing something (King's Regulations?) banning cat-napping in the trenches. Sorry, precise reference not to hand.

David

[phil@basildon]

I do recall an account by a British officer (Graves?) that he was taught to count the ribs on "rabbits" that the locals were trying to sell the troops. Apparently cats and rabbits don't have the same number, or perhaps types, of ribs. And apparently there had been cases of cat being sold as rabbit.

I was told that the difference was in the position of the kidney's, rabbit kidneys are offset to each other so that they can make sudden changes of direction to avoid predators without injuring themselves. Rabbits may have had fewer ribs for the same reason.

[Gunner Bailey]

What iamw said.

I'm not sure if At Home Dad is a po-faced ****-stirrer or a dead-pan comic genius, but this thread really is the cat's whiskers!

Er - ah - that is -

It may have had a CATastrophic effect on his reputation though. I now feel CATatonic about it and have to lie down for a CAT nap. It has been hard work but the end result looks PURRfect. Lots of laughs and no progress!

John

[dfaulder]

The Mods have asked me to move the following from the Cats in Trenches thread to this thread:

Whether or not the pantry is the objective, there is a big difference between "best friends", by which I assume you mean those animals taken as pets, and feral animals of any similar species. It is a very broad generalization to assume the affection one feels for a pet would be extended to one that is truly feral as some dogs and cats in the front line area must have been.

I suspect that it is not quite as black and white as this. If we ask for the logic for feeling distaste for eating say dog, but perfect happiness in eating pork (from an arguably more sentient being), I suspect there is a sort of taboo against "taking advantage" of those species with which we have a relationship that is not that of farmer and "farmed animal". I suspect that the taboo is not applied to specific animals, but to specific species - hence our current-day squeamishness about possibly accidentally eating dog when in the Far East.

Therefore a trench cat (feral or not), being one of the cat species is, in respect of most people, protected by this taboo (assuming that this taboo can be projected back 90 years). Even the feral trench cat, may be "related to" due to its likely ability to catch and kill vermin - indeed may farm cats are near feral but serve and are appreciated for this purpose - thus confirming their degree of "protected" status.

Likewise, I suspect that the British might have a problem with shooting a terminally injured (but otherwise un-diseased) horse and eating it - whilst the French, who "farm" horses for meat (?), would not suffer from this taboo. (Is there anything in War Diaries of say the Veterinary Corps that records decisions to end the life of an injured horse on the grounds that it would still provide useful meat?)

Taboos can break-down under extreme conditions - as with the Andes air-crash (where survivors resorted to cannibalism). I suspect that people's background (particularly on the urban-rural scale, outside of extreme poverty) may determine your attitude to, for instance, killing and eating border-line "game" such as squirrels and that this may be related to how easily the taboo against consuming "un-farmed" but domesticated species can be over-ridden.

David

[Ken S.]

I really wish somebody would just euthanize this thread.

[NigelS]

I suspect that people's background (particularly on the urban-rural scale, outside of extreme poverty) may determine your attitude to, for instance, killing and eating border-line "game" such as squirrels and that this may be related to how easily the taboo against consuming "un-farmed" but domesticated species can be over-ridden.

As witnessed by the recent story of a well known supermarket chain selling squirrel meat (Click) with people objecting to it on the one hand, while on the other, being claimed by the sellers to be in demand - there would obviously be one hell of a an out cry if there was any suggestion of 'reds' being involved. Similarly, if you do consider them to be fit for the table, or as just a pest that needs controlling, there are also now problems with how to cull them in a domestic environment (Click);It will be interesting to see if anyone gets prosecuted for poisoning rats & mice, a method which can cause a lingering and probably painful death. Personally, if people do want to eat squirrel, provided they're treated & killed humanely, I don't really have a problem with it, but I did find another recent story very disrespectful to the animals used, even if they were road kill Click

Getting back on topic (?), I would imagine that rabbits & hares would have been available in the countryside away from the front lines and, if not shot (It must have been against the Regs to use service weapons & ammunition in such away?), capable of easily being trapped or snared by those with the expertise; alternatively, are there any recorded examples of 'trench ferrets' being used to obtain such game? Rabbits (similarly pigs as well as the more obvious chickens) were then often kept as domestic pets in rural areas which would, without any qualms (except possibly by younger family members), have been destined for the pot from the outset. In this respect we live in a different world with very few people in this country today having to face up to the reality of regularly having to kill an animal in cold blood in order to provide daily fare for the table.

NigelS

[Morris]

Cat meat is what (middle class) people fed to their cats, as in "The cat's meat man" and to quote from my father when writing home from the Front:

I shall expect wonderful menus during the few days I stay at Cotham. I don’t mean quantities of food so much as cats meat served up as roast turkey and cold bacon camouflaged as venison.

Even in the early 1960's my mother hardly ever bought tinned food for our cats, as they were given stuff from the butcher (heart etc) to supplemebnt what they found to eat themselves by way of mice birds etc.

However after spending a while on Google I have found numerous references to eating cat when it is called Austraila Rabbit or Roof rabbit. Wikipedia even has a whole article about the history of Taboo foods.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taboo_food_and_drink

and this makes for an interestiong read too:

http://www.messybeast.com/eat-cats.htm

Alfred

[John_Hartley]

I thought this thread had been locked. What on earth is the silliness doing open again. Surely this has so litle basis in fact or, even , serious debate, that it should be a Skindles matter.

[wainfleet]

I really wish somebody would just euthanize this thread.

So do I.

[Kate Wills]

It has been re-opened because other members had something sensible to say on the subject, and posted on a thread which carried the notice that matters relating to cat-eating were not welcome.

If you do not like the thread, the easiest way of letting it drop is not to post.

[John_Hartley]

Fair enough, Kate.

Although I'm beaten by the logic where the mods, for entirely sensible reasons, have asked there be no cat eating posts, then reopen a cat eating thread.

[AndyHollinger]

This must be some level of Monty Python joke about cannibalism in the Royal Navy - follow on 40 years later sort of thing. The Troll had his day in the sun ...

[Dragon]

It's pretty unattractive, though and there are some unedifying comments addressed to members. If it's believed that the thread starter was behaving out of character, leaving his possible embarrassment on public view doesn't seem either kind or conducive to his return. I don't like what he said to people like Kate or Alan, but maybe the gracious thing would be to 'lose' it.

Either that, or perhaps retitle it to do with eating foraged food (rabbits, hares, wild boars, etc) and clean out the ugly stuff.

Gwyn

[Morris]

I have found some contemporary source material about cats in the (British) trenches.

There are the following references to cats in my father’s letters written after he was sent to France in 1918. While acknowledging that my father, as an RAMC doctor, was an officer and not poor, he was always around the men and often in or near the Front and his comments about cats do not make it sound like they were being eaten:

“30th March 1918... Audrey will be interested to know that the tabby and white cat which belongs to the unit travelled by motor-car this morning and was sleeping peacefully when I left on top of a pile of papers in the new orderly-room...

7th April 1918... I met a large black cat in one of the communication trenches this morning. It neither understood my English nor my French but seemed very happy. There are enough mice wherever there are soldiers to make any cat happy. There are two mice in the wall by my bed and one of them for three days has had a terrible cold or else has been recently gassed. They chew paper all night and one of them sneezes and coughs the whole night and his breathing is as wheezy as old George Wells...

18th June 1918...I only sleep in the cellar - which I share with two rats and I have an outhouse as sitting room and dressing room. I call it “dressing room” but my boots and tunic are the only things I ever take off. A tabby and white cat and a mouse are frequent visitors. The former is so thin and half-starved that I should very much like to introduce them to each other...

June 23rd 1918... Yesterday when I was inspecting the mess huts I found a cat with two dear little kittens. They could just open their eyes and play...

3rd July 1918... I am living in my ratty cellar but leave it tomorrow. The rats are now so cheeky that last night I had to go out and find, stalk, chase, and catch a stray cat and take her to bed with me. As I had nothing to entice her with but shaving soap and my sweet voice and a bootlace she was difficult to retain. She went before I got into bed but I woke up in the night and found her asleep near the bed and this morning she was sitting on the table...

17th July 1918... The cat has four kittens to look after and is quite busy. I adopted another tiny wee kitten and kept it for a week but it departed. Kittens are in great demand among the troops as they are very entertaining and “Tommie” just loves pets with him everywhere. I expect my kitten has struck oil somewhere...

July 25th... The cat has disappeared but there is a better and more affectionate one here now and also a tiny tabby kitten which would be improved with a bag over its head, a stone round its neck, and a deep river, if I have enough courage to do the deed...

1st August 1918... We adopt a new cat or kitten at almost every place we go to and then hand them over to the next people who come in….

5th August 1918…The Padre and I are once more living in our ratty cellar but have not seen any rats yet this time. The kitten has gone but the cat welcomed us most effusively and is much fatter. The cat “played the piano” on my breeches before I had been in the place five minutes - which didn’t improve my leg which was inside the breeches at the time. He sleeps in bed with my batman. We also have a small puppy here now and it and the cat are quite amusing.

7th August 1918… My chief regret will be leaving the cat who at the present moment is having a meal off a large lump of coal at my feet - he thinks he has caught a mouse!

7th December 1918… Yesterday afternoon I was writing on the table up against the window in my room with the window open at the bottom when suddenly a large tabby cat landed on the table...”

As a Medical Officer my father also used to have to inspect the men’s food and water etc every day, and never said anything to me that suggested they were ever eating anything worse than horse meat. I think it reasonable to believe that your average “Tommie” regarded a cat as an ally and not as a food source.

If this thread is to be about food in general, then perhaps the following is also useful in determining whether or not the British soldier might ever have reached the point where eating “alternative food” was necessary. (I would however not be surprised if cats were eaten by other nationalities seeing they still eat lots of things, such as small birds & mammals, frogs, snails etc that the English find difficult to stomach. - the Japanese Army in WW2 was renowned for being able to eat off the land: snakes, lizards, tree-rats etc.)

My father’s letters suggest that on the whole the British Army Quartermasters and others did a grand job getting hold of food in France:

“There is plenty of good plain food”.

“...We have had a glut of fruit etc here just lately - yesterday at various meals new potatoes, green peas, french beans, gooseberries, strawberries, red currants, and cherries. And any amount of cream...”

“...I must say that as regards fruit and food of various kinds it is a great thing to be in the Army and not subject to rations and coupons...”

“...9 days out of 10 we have sardines for tea and tinned salmon for dinner (as well as meat of course) - both of which get rather monotonous. Still our food compared with what I was used to in England is magnificent and we are short of absolutely nothing except “freshness” I mean fresh fish, and fresh milk, and fresh butter, and fresh meat etc. We get quite a lot of fresh vegetables locally...”

Someone did attempt to bring everyone some fresh fish from Boulogne when returning from leave, but it had gone off by the time they got back to the unit. My father’s main complaint was about the exorbitant prices charged by the French for it, he even sent a lot of his laundry home rather than get it done by the French:

“...The French people rob us right and left and make no secret of it – it really is disgusting to think they are our allies. From what we see here they are all out to make what they can out of the English...”

It's fine by me to lose the Cat aspect of this thread and turn it into a “What did the army eat?” thread.

The photograph is of "Noireaux" the cat in one of the places my father was billeted

Alfred

[RaySearching]

“Eating Cats in the Trenches ... after the Cat Fights”

Quote from the previous post It's fine by me to lose the Cat aspect of this thread and turn it into a “What did the army eat?” thread

Here is a photo alledgedly of my Grandfarther having his favorite snack in the trenches and

Not A Cat mentioned

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[GlenBanna]

Give us a break................................

[27thBN]

A Kit Cat Break..................... :blink:

[Pete1052]

Is the story true that something like this was a specialty of the Officers Mess in the Manchester Regiment?

Note: The link worked when this message was originally posted. It was to a news story about a testicle-cooking festival held in one of the Balkan countries last summer.

[John_Hartley]

Is the story true that something like this was a specialty of the Officers Mess in the Manchester Regiment?

No. That story was a load of bo!!ocks.

[Pete1052]

This problem may have gotten worse now that they let women in the army.

[centurion]

Is the story true that something like this was a specialty of the Officers Mess in the Manchester Regiment?

The link merely comes up with

Item Not Found

The article or page you requested was not found. If this link was sent to you via e-mail or posted on another website, it was probably incorrectly formatted.

[WilliamRev]

I've come to this thread very late - here are several feline-related thoughts:

In Victorian and Edwardian times you didn't have to be a cat-lover to have a cat: mice and rats were liable to appear anywhere, and virtually everyone (especially in rural areas) had cats to keep vermin in check. My grandparents were by no means cat-lovers, but they had a large black and white cat called Timmy (looked after by the servants) who earned his keep by killing mice (which my grandmother was terrified of ) ).

So.....\'m sure that.in the trenches cats were very welcome for their vermin-control skills. I can't believe that cats were eaten all that often, not least because on the whole there was no shortage of food - bully-beef may have ben dull, but there was lots of it..

[As a coda to this thread, I understand that cat was not all that nice to eat: in the - Henry Chancellor's book "Colditz, The Definative History" mentions that at the very end of WW2, when food had run out, The English Cat strangely went missing, and the following day there was a very odd greasy meat stew....]

William

[Crusoe]

I read a newspaper article (c. early-1919) in which a returned PoW related his experiences. Amongst other trials and tribulations, starvation had been a real issue and the soldier concerned, along with two others, had caught and killed a cat for food. I don't think it was invented as it went into some detail (including the fact that the cat was pregnant, and the unborn kittens had been eaten too), and there seemed to be no sensationalism in the telling; it was just matter-of-fact. We were starving, we needed food, that's what we did............

Now I appreciate that this does not make a case for wholesale "felinophagy" during the Great War, but it does demonstrate that in desperate times, desperate measures were adopted. Perhaps the general lack of authoritative documentary proof is merely a reflection of the prevailing British attitude to animals; i.e. a subject tacitly acknowledged, but best not discussed at the time?

Quite how all this advances the knowledge of the war though is a bit of a mystery to me. I'm sure there were a lot of other things that went on but were not openly discussed. If Kinsey is to believed then it was 1 in 10 then too, and given the size of the BEF there was a lot of scope for it......................