Thiepval Research Centre Database

[Cynthia]

Does anyone else on the Forum have a relative or soldier who is on the new database system at the Thiepval Research Centre? I got confirmation today that Robert Stark will be in the database, as well as being included in the panorama.

The panorama has 600 photographs of soldiers whose names are on the Memorial. The database will include everyone eventually, although additional information and photographs are welcome.

On my next visit, which I am hoping will be very soon (September), I would also like to pay my respects to other Pals special soldiers when I visit, as I know many of you have done with Robert.

I think it will be an excellent tool to be able to put faces to some of the names, and to know more about an individual.

Cynthia

[Guest Simon Bull]

Cynthia - how did you find out who was on the database?

Regards

Simon Bull

[Cynthia]

Dear Simon,

When I read that the Centre was looking for information on individuals who are commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial, I sent information about Robert Stark to Ken and Pam Linge, who are handling the database and the panorama. Last week I contacted them again to find out whether Robert's photograph was going to be in the panorama (he is), and Ken sent me a copy of the database listing for Robert. He told me that he has about 2,000 entries at present, and there are 600 photographs for the panorama.

I don't know who is on the database specifically at this point, but I am sure Ken can tell you, and perhaps you can also add your entry for your special soldier. His email address is: ken@klinge.demon.co.uk. Since I am seriously considering coming over if the official dedication comes off in September, I wanted to know whether Robert was included in both areas, or if I needed to supply additional information.

I am sure most of us have wondered who each one of the names were, what they looked like, what their lives were like, and where they came from. Because of my interest in Godstone, I have been able to identify and find out a little bit about the three Godstonians on Thiepval, including Robert. The database entry I saw yesterday for Robert contains the information I sent, along with his photograph. I think it will be an incredible addition to the studies of the Great War, and I hope it will serve to show future generations that those names belonged to real men, each with his own story and, if a photograph can be included, a face.

There has certainly been controversy surrounding this project, but I hope that eventually the higher purpose for which it has been designed will override some of the political and administrative snafus that have been encountered. Let's hope that we who have donated to that fund will feel our money has not been spent in vain.

Cynthia

[spike10764]

Cynthia,

Some time ago I sent off information to Ken and Pam Linge which should be included in the database(for Pte John Farrer-see my signature).

Unfortunately I have been unable to send a photo, so it'll only be on the database.

Is this database available on the net?

Or rather, in what form have you seen the entry for Robert Stark. I don't want to go bothering Ken and Pam for copies right now as I'm sure they'll be busy at the moment.

Any info you have regarding this would be appreciated.

Spike

[Cynthia]

Dear Spike,

I emailed Ken to find out the actual date for the dedication ceremony in late September, because coming 4,000 miles requires a bit of planning aforethought! At the same time I asked if Robert would be included in the panorama, and Ken kindly sent me an Acrobat file copy of the entry. By the way, there is no firm date for the dedication at this time, according to Ken. Posting the date too far in advance also seems to be a security problem.

Not sure if I can include Acrobat files as an attachment, but I will give it a go here so you can see what it looks like.

Cynthia

robert_james_stark.pdf

[spike10764]

Thanks Cynthia,

It did work you can download the file from your post. I'll have to try and get a copy of John's entry off Ken.

Regards Spike

[Guest Simon Bull]

Thanks Cynthia

[Ralph J. Whitehead]

While I understand the focus on the men who are listed on the memorial at Thiepval I was also wondering what will be done with the German and French participants of the battle? Will there be an extension of the data base to include them as well?

I hope someone has some further details on this question, I have not heard anything along these lines for some months.

Ralph

[Cynthia]

Dear Ralph,

I do not know about French and German databases, and have never seen any mention of them in the literature I receive or on the Thiepval website. For those who have not seen the site, the address is: http://www.thiepval.org.uk/SHADOWS.htm

There are pictures of the building now, and I suppose many of you who have recently been to Thiepval have seen it. The proposed opening in July has now been postponed.

Perhaps Ken can answer your question, Ralph, or another member of the committee. With no mention of it, and it seeming to be an Anglo-French partnership, I would think that the French may have some sort of database, but don't know about the Germans.

Cynthia

[Ralph J. Whitehead]

Thanks for the information Cynthia. My reason for writing my first message to this thread was due to information I received some time ago looking for details on the men listed on the memorial. I had written to the person asking if a German database was being considered as additional research opportunities to the visitors and researchers.

The response I received indicated that this was being worked on at a later date but since that time I have heard nothing further. I understand that the project appears to be an Anglo-French project as the web site mentions. It also appears from the site details that there is no indication that the German data would be included.

I have studied both sides of the conflict and this includes the French participation. I concentrate almost exclusively on the German side at this point in time and at this point in time I am disappointed that at least half of the participation in the battle is being excluded if that indeed is the situation. I find it much easier to study the war when looking at both sides of the wire that explains many of the events in a clear and concise manner.

If the center is excluding the German side I feel that it is a sad day as we should look at the entire picture, the full sacrifice of all countries (Americans included, who fought in all three armies on the Somme). I would think that at the point in time where we are going to hold the 90th anniversary of the war we could think of the larger picture and not take such a narrow view.

Hopefully my assumptions are incorrect and the German part of the battle will be included at a later date. I look forward to hearing any further news of the project and the issues raised in this message. If I hear any further I will pass it along to the forum as well, thanks again.

Ralph

[westkent78]

This seems a great idea.

Will this database be accessible on the web for those of us who can't easily make the pilgrimage to Thiepval?

Thanks,

Matthew

[David Seymour]

The plan of the interior of the centre at http://www.thiepval.org.uk/news.htm#5 shows reference to German remembrance.

Regards,

David

[Cynthia]

I got an answer this morning from Ken Linge regarding German and French databases, and also the availability of the database online. Here is his response to my questions:

Will the Thiepval Research Centre database be available online in the future? Many members will not be able to make the trip, but would like to be able to use the database.

This is something which is under review. There are issues with some donors (e.g. other museums and authors) who are uneasy about allowing information, but particularly pictures, to be available on the web which could allow people to circumvent the copyright rules.

We have therefore “parked” this issue for the moment whilst concentrating on getting as much as possible into the database ahead of the opening.

We would certainly have to contact all the donors to check with their wishes before proceeding. So something to reconsider in 2005.

Anyone who can’t get to the centre can always contact us and we will be happy to provide any details that are held or update the database with new information as appropriate.

· Will there be accompanying databases for both French and German soldiers killed in the area? My guess is that this is a database commemorating the 73,000 (approximately) names on the Thiepval Memorial, which does not include French and German combatants. However, I may be wrong.

You are correct that the Memorial only commemorates the British “missing” and therefore the database only covers those.

The visitor centre will deal with all participants in the Somme campaigns. There was a discussion about having access to a database of German casualties (akin to the Commonwealth War Graves) but we are not sure how that is progressing.

Regards

Pam and Ken Linge

I think that answers those two questions for the time being. Sounds as if both ideas are not impossible, but may take a while longer.

Cynthia