Beersheba's Cymry

[Dragon]

'Gro', meaning gravel, especially river gravel is often used poetically in Welsh to mean 'grave.' See the poem 'Ystrad Fflur' (Can't remember who wrote it!)

Thomas Gwynn Jones - 'Ystrad Fflur '- number 244 in my Oxford Book of Welsh Verse, 1967 edition. (Was he not a pacifist in WW1? Can't confirm in the Dictionary of Welsh Biography.)

What a poignant reflection - the place-names families would recognise from the chapels. Thanks for that.

Gwyn

Edit:

Mae dail y coed yn Ystrad Fflur

Yn murmur yn yr awel,

A deuddeg Abad yn y gro

Yn huno yno'n dawel.

Ac yno dan yr ywen brudd

Mae Dafydd bêr ei gywydd,

A llawer pennaeth llym ei gledd

Yn ango'r bedd tragywydd.

Er bod yr haf, pan ddêl ei oed,

Yn deffro'r coed i ddeilio,

Ni ddefry dyn, a gwaith ei law

Sy'n distaw ymddadfeilio.

Ond er mai angof angau prudd

Ar adfail ffydd a welaf,

Pan rodiwyf ddaear Ystrad Fflur

O'm dolur ymdawelaf.

[Hywyn]

( Almost every village has a chapel named after a Palestinian location.)

And also many Caernarfonshire villages (and elsewhere) themselves named after biblical placenames

e.g

Ebenezer

Bethesda

Nebo

Carmel

Bethel

Cesarea

etc

Hywyn

[michaeldr]

Huw,

Many thanks for your comments and for your suggestion for Thomas John Jones' inscription (this has now been edited in)

Hywyn,

Glad that you have enjoyed this thread and as always, good to hear your thoughts on this.

I am sorry that at this time I cannot answer your query re who lies between the two Evans brothers; looks like another trip is needed, but at the moment I cannot say when that might be.

regards

Michael

[Hywyn]

Michael

No problems. It occured to me to look at some likely surnames on the CWGC Cemeteries and found that it is Albert William Jones from Frenchay near Bristol. The name seemed familiar and I find that he is in your main thread!!

Hywyn

[bruce]

What a tremendous thread!

I set Ayesha to translate each of the inscriptions......and she agreed with just about all of Clive's.

(Some were harder than others! Ayesha)

Bruce

[michaeldr]

Hywyn,

It seems strange that two brothers were not buried next to each other

however having said that, there is nothing on the CWGC register to indicate that they were related.

Perhaps it was not widely known at the time.

Do you have any ideas?

Name: EVANS

Initials: E

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Royal Welsh Fusiliers

Unit Text: 1st/6th Bn.

Date of Death: 06/11/1917

Service No: 265702

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: F. 51

Name: EVANS, ROBERT

Initials: R

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Royal Welsh Fusiliers

Unit Text: 1st/6th Bn.

Age: 28

Date of Death: 06/11/1917

Service No: 265671

Additional information: Husband of H. Evans, of 3, Water St., Llanberis, Canarvonshire.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: F. 53

regards

Michael

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

Thanks for your comments Andrew and Bruce

and thanks again to all who have contributed so far

Michael

[clive_hughes]

Back again,

with thanks to those who've tidied up my efforts!

I've been on the blower to my brother, who is far better versed in both translation and the rigours of Welsh poetry and run a few of these epitaphs past him. He dazzled me with discourses upon "cynghanedd groes" and "cynghanedd draws" but I'm little the wiser except to say that whoever constructed some of these verses knew their business as far as the rules of poetic writing went.

However he wasn't impressed by "Rhydfab's" efforts on behalf of E.L.Jones #5 at all. Just said it wasn't poetry! So maybe my English translation is more poetic than the original?!

The verse for Willie Owen #10 he identifies as an "englyn milwr"(soldier's englyn) in type - a three-line alliterative stanza, the smallest variety under the rules, and so named because (he says) it was originally used for soldiers' epitaphs, but a common form on gravestones generally. If so, then very appropriate here.

For Benjamin S.Rees #12 he didn't correct my efforts, just pointed out that I hadn't made a mistake - "unawr" does mean "one hour"; it's just expressed that poetic way rather than "un awr" because of the formal construction of the cwpled (couplet) and its need to have the right number of syllables. Or so he says...

By now you will have gathered that I'm not the world's greatest expert on the rules of formal Welsh poetry (never mind its translation); so all I can add is that like their civilian counterparts, these epitaphs draw on a vast resource of Welsh verse stretching back to the 6th century AD, and including many hundreds of popular hymns, Bible verses, and specially composed pieces at a time when the Bardic crafts were encouraged and admired more than they are nowadays.

In that sense, they are in themselves yet another Welsh expression of loss and commemoration for so many of those who fell so far from their homeland.

LST_164

[Carmania]

… … … … …

Just four regimental numbers later is another John Jones

JONES, THOMAS JOHN

Initials: T J

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Welsh Regiment

Unit Text: 24th Bn.

Age: 27

Date of Death: 06/11/1917

Service No: 320238

Additional information: Son of Mr. and Mrs. Lewis Jones, of Tycefn, Llansawel, Carmarthenshire.

This translation is thanks to LST_164 (see his post # 15):-

Thomas John Jones Llansawel - another englyn,

"Without boastfulness after fighting, he remains with a cross above his place".

[That's a bit stilted - anyone else prefer a more stylish rendition?]

The following alternative has been suggested by Huw Davies – see his post # 24

'After battling, he remains,

Unassuming - a cross above his grave'.

These are in fact the last two lines of the englyn Beddargraff Milwr (A Soldier's Epitaph):

Aeth o'i ing i fwth ango', - i wely

Y milwr i huno;

Heb rodres, wedi'r brwydro,

Erys a chroes uwch ei ro.

They were written by Gwilym Williams and published (posthumously) in 1917 in a collection of his poems 'Dan Yr Helyg' (Beneath the Willows). Posthumously as Williams died of wounds on the 21st May 1916 whilst serving as a 2nd Lieut with the 17th Battalion, Royal Welsh Fusiliers. He is buried in Merville Communal Cemetery.

An attempt at a translation:

From his anguish to a haven of rememberance

To sleep in a soldier's resting place

After the battle, unassuming, he remains

With a cross above his grave.

Aled

[michaeldr]

My thanks to both LST_164 and to Aled for those further comments;

the appropriate edits have been made

regards

Michael

[michaeldr]

Please see post # 12 for further details and a photograph of Pte David Michael

kindly supplied today by LST_164

Thanks

Michael

[swizz]

An absolutely fascinating thread - thank you.

[ShirlD]

Another evocative and beautiful tribute, this time to the men from Wales. Thank you Michael (and all your translators and helpers!)

Cheers

Shirley

[geraint]

I missed this thread in 2010.

Absolutely wonderful! Thanks to all concerned and I hope that other members will seize this opportunity to read this fine contribution. Especial thanks to Michael for bringing these images to our attention.

[The Scorer]

Ystrad Fflur is the Welsh translation of Strata Florida, as in the Abbey of the same name in Ceredigion, near Aberystwyth.

In turn, Strata Florida translates from Latin as the Vale of Flowers.