3/8125 Pte Emmerson Robert

[rob emmerson]

Hello Forum pals, requesting any information please on

the Gentleman who's name is close to my heart. I do know

he was sadly killed on the 4th March 1915 aged 30 years old

and last October I visited the Ypres Menin Gate memorial

to pay my respects to him and the countless others. Any

help with this very much appreciated. Many thanks.

Take care,

Bob

Also remembering today all those who fought and died at the

Battle of the Somme, RIP

[sotonmate]

Bob

No service record seems to have survived.

Robert served with 1 Battalion,which was part of 9 Brigade of 3 Division. He landed in France on 9.11.1914,the Battalion had already landed in August,so he may have been in a replacement batch. His Medal Index Card shows he was entitled to three campaign medals, and then appears to remove entitlement to the 1914 Star. His date into theatre of France was around 2 weeks before they closed the entitlement to this medal.

The Battalion War Diary is digital and on the National Archives Catalogue,downloadable for 3.50 and covers the whole war from Aug 1914 to May 1919. The ref is WO95/1430.

Sotonmate

Compo (rations) sausage is the best sausage I ever tasted !

[ralphjd]

SDGW :- born Prindon, Durham enlisted Newcastle-on-Tyne.

[Paul Nixon]

3/8125 indicates that he originally joined the Special Reserve later than January but earlier than September 1912. As Sotonmate says, he would have been sent out as part of a draft to the regular 1st Battalion, but retained his 3rd Battalion number when he was posted there.

Forum Pal Graham Stewart may be able to add more about this man.

[Graham Stewart]

3/1825 Pte Robert Emmerson was possibly born in Trimdon, Durham and not Prindon as stated in SDGW(since no such place existed) and living at 6 Elders Buildings, Whitburn at the time of his death.

His number is interesting as it indicates that he had been serving with the 3rd(Special Reserve)Bn, Northumberland Fusiliers since either March or April 1912. As a Special Reservist he would have been automatically posted to a regular battalion, as a reinforcement.

[rob emmerson]

Hello Sotonmate, a very big thank you for all the information

which is greatly received and all very interesting. I intend to

contact the National Archives regarding the downloadable

Regimental War Diary, I'm still amazed at the knowledge

that people like your good self have on this Great War Forum.

Many thanks once again, take care.

Bob

And Sir you are a great connoisseur of fine food, my GWF

name dedicated to the great sausage in a tin, the best.

[rob emmerson]

rjaydee, a very big thank you for getting back intouch. All

information on this Gentleman is greatly received, take care

and thanks again. Regards,

Bob

[rob emmerson]

Paul Nixon, Many thanks for taking the time to get back

intouch, it's all very interesting and adds to the puzzle

about this Gentleman, take care mate.

Regards

Bob

[rob emmerson]

Graham Stewart, a great big thank you for all the information

you kindly took the time to look for, I intend to follow all of this

up and even locate where Whitburn is. I'd be lost if it weren't

for the people like your good self on this fascinating forum.

Many thanks, take care. Regards

Bob

Forum Pal Paul Nixon said you might be able to help, thanks.

[KevinBattle]

I know these guys have done the hard work, Whitburn is just up the coast from Sunderland. Let Google Maps be your friend, but I have no idea where Elder Buildings may have been! Perhaps the local Library has a Local Studies section, or newspaper map, Kellys Directory?

[rob emmerson]

KevinW4, Good evening mate, I've just finished writing an e-mail

to the local History Society in Whitburn itself. I've also managed to

look at photos of the memorials in the local churches with Robert

Emmerson's name on them. A big thanks for getting intouch and

your advice taken onboard, take care.

Bob

[Keith_history_buff]

In contrast, 8125 Robert Wilson enlisted in the Northumberland Fusiliers under Regular terms of service on 12 Aug 1901. He bought himself out of the army on 27 November 1903. His service record has survived. It is not apparent whether he served in WW1. 

[Keith_history_buff]

  

5 hours ago, Graham Stewart said:

Hi Paul,

Just a quick one to let you know that the numbering that I have for the 3rd(Res)Bn,N.F. during WWI starts with the low number 3/189 Pte Joseph Appleby, who went onto to serve with the 16th Bn,N.F. and then was transferred to KOYLI.

The biggest number in the four figure system is 3/9997 Pte James Tymon, who went onto serve with 'X' Coy, 1st Bn,N.F.

In the five figure numbers I start with 3/10002 Pte Patrick Heany, who went onto serve with the 1st and 25th Bns,N.F. and this grows to 3/19877 Pte Fred Warbuton, who served with the 20th & 24th Bns,N.F. and he was eventually transferred to the York and Lancaster Regt.

Hope this is of some use to you.

Graham.

 

Hi Graham, I am posting here, on the topic of soldiers of the Northumberland Fusiliers, rather than reserve battalions.

There is a FMP transcription for 3/19877 Pte Fred Warburton and I believe this is a false friend. It appears the regiment is incorrect, for starters.

From 1908 to 6 August 1914, the Special Reserve looked to recruit younger men, who could meet the 5 + 1 month period of training. From 7 August 1914 to 7 November 1914, the Special Reserve looked to reenlist men with prior military experience, and this pool of older ex-military men appears to have been absorbed by the end of 1914.

From this point onwards, it no longer served a purpose. It was preferred that recruits voluntarily enlisted under Regular terms of service, for the duration of the war. This was superseded by the MSA.

The statement of services has him attesting on 29 February 1916, then being mobilised at the Depot, West Riding Regiment on 8 April 1916. He is posted to the 3rd Battalion on 11 April 1916. (It is not readily apparent which service numbers relate to the Northumberland Fusiliers: 41554, 88741. I believe 588741 relates to his time in the Labour Corps.) He is posted to France on 21 July 1916, 34th Infantry Base Depot, and later posted to York and Lancaster Regiment, 44496, on 25 May 1918.

There is nothing from the paperwork to indicate anything other than General Service under Regular terms of service for the duration of the war, in accordance with the MSA. If he had enlisted SR, I would have expected an amendment to the attestation, and the conduct sheet, to reflect this.

So, in conclusion, I do not believe this man had enlisted under Special Reserve terms of service in the Northumberland Fusiliers.

[Graham Stewart]

Hi Keith,

Thanks for including Freds Service Record and having gone through it, it does appear that there was a clerical error regarding his service with the N.F.. From what I've read his service would appear as such;-

Attested 29/2/1916 and transferred to the Army Reserve.

Mobilised 8/4/1916 and posted to the 3rd(Res)Bn,West Riding Regt and numbered 3/19837

Transferred to the N.F. and initially served as 41554 with the 24th Bn,N.F.(24/9/16). Then to the 20th Bn,N.F.(12/8/17) and then to the N.F.Depot(8/9/17).

Back to the 20thBn,N.F(21/3/1918) and then the 3rd(Res)Bn,N.F.(18/4/1918).

Transferred to the Labour Corps(18/5/1918) and renumbered 588741.

Transferred to the 16th Bn,York & Lancs Regt(25/5/1918) and renumbered 44496. From there to the 3rd(Res)Bn,Y&L(27/7/1919).

Not easy Documents to read and this is a common feature with surviving Service Records due to what happened to them during the last War.

However I will now be able to correct my Database to take him out of the 3rd(Res)Bn.

Hopefully I may be able to attach another numbering reference which may be of interest.

Graham.

[Graham Stewart]

Hi Again,

Although not related to the Special Reserve this ACI may be of interest;-

 

[Keith_history_buff]

Hi Graham,

That service record is one of the most chaotic that I have seen in many months. It goes to show how you have to spend time to unravel the chaos of what happened. It is interesting to see that even in 1916, the "3/" prefix is being used by the clerks, even though the implication is that all regular intakes for a county regiment should be using the one set of numbers, and adding the details to a single Army Form 358 Enlistment Book. I guess old habits die hard.

Interesting to see consistency of numbering in the TF, and that transferring to an associated unit (from 1/nth to 2/nth) does not introduce further chaos of renumbering. The scope for confusion in a regiment is there when Regular and SR have concurrent number sequences, but there's greater likelihood of confusion where at least three TF concurrent number sequences are in existence! For this reason, it makes sense to me that the 1917 renumbering of the TF took place.

Thanks
Keith 

[Graham Stewart]

Hi Again,

Have just done a further check of my Database and it would appear that the 3rd(Res)Bn,N.F. continued to number men past 19999 into the 20000 sequence. My first one in this section is;-

3/20105 Pte James Thompson, from Tring, Hertfordshire, who served in France from 9/9/15 and was later transferred to the Labour Corps and renumbered 386362.

The final one that I have is - 3/22628 Pte Walter F. Huband, from London, who was transferred to the Royal Engineers and renumbered WR/207540.

Graham