RNCVR Posted 31 May , 2004 Share Posted 31 May , 2004 I wonder if anyone might be able to advise me on this one ---- The Unknown Soldier was buried in Westminster Abbey in a ceremony on 11 November 1920. There was a large Honour Guard composed of officers & men of all three services - all of the members of this Honour Guard were decorated with the VC, DCM, CGM, etc. The Naval party alone consisted of 12 VC & 13 CGM winners. This must have been a very impressive ceremony on that day, especially with all of those men wearing their Great War awards. What I am wondering is - WAS THE EVENT PHOTOGRAPHED??? I am sure it must have been, the ceremony being something of that importance at the time, with the massive losses in the War being very very fresh in memory. I have a Naval member of that Honour Guard & would love to obtain some of the photos that might have been taken that day - might anyone have any of these photos or any information on them?? I expect that the photos, if they exist, would be in the IWM collection - would anyone know for sure if this is so & perhaps have numbers for the photos? Thanks in advance, Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 31 May , 2004 Share Posted 31 May , 2004 Bryan A quick search of The Times for Friday November 12th 1920, shows that there is a prominent picture of the event above the report. Unfortunately it only seems possible to retrieve the text and not the picture from the online edition. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliecoco Posted 31 May , 2004 Share Posted 31 May , 2004 Hi Bryan, This book has been mentioned before on the forum - The Story of the Unknown Warrior by Michael Gavaghan. It has some illustrations of the Coldstream Guards lowering the coffin into place, the King scattering ashes, as well as the one hundred VC holders paying their last respects. Seemingly these illustrations came from The Illustrated London News. There are pictures of the crowds and the centoptaph, and infact I have a postcard showing the coffin go past. Alie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 31 May , 2004 Share Posted 31 May , 2004 Bryan - The only pictures I have are on postcards and they don't show the actual funeral. This one shows the unveiling of the Cenotaph, you can see the coffin of the Unknown Warrior on the right-hand side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 31 May , 2004 Share Posted 31 May , 2004 A (very poor quality) close-up of the coffin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 31 May , 2004 Share Posted 31 May , 2004 Sue, I believe that the picture published on that day was of the King at the Cenotaph at 11.00 a.m. The gun-carriage with the Unknown Warrior's coffin stopped at the cenotaph for the Silence. Bryan, it wouldn't surprise me if there were no photos taken during the service in the Abbey. It would have been too dark and a long exposure would have been necessary, with everyone standing still. Artifical lighting would have been an alternative, but it would have been very cumbersome. The "Illustrated London News" had drawings of the ceremony and three of them appear in "The Story of the Unknown Warrior" by Michael Gavaghan - the King scattering earth on the coffin, Coldstream Guardsmen lowering the coffin into the grave and a view of some of the 100 VC holders filing past the grave. Michael Gavaghan also reproduces a photo taken inside the Abbey showing the vergers preparing the grave but this picture is obviousy stiffly-posed and artificially lit. There's another photo of the coffin in Westminster Abbey - a long time-exposure one. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 31 May , 2004 Share Posted 31 May , 2004 And another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 31 May , 2004 Author Share Posted 31 May , 2004 Thanks very much for the responses Sue, Alie, Lee, Tom - pictures are much appreciated, & I was not aware of Michael Gavaghan's book on the subject. I can understand the reasoning behind the possibility of no photos being taken inside the Abbey due to the limitations of interior photography at that time - that had not occurred to me - the light would have been very poor & not good for photography for sure. I think I have seen a couple of the Illustrated London News drawings. I was hoping perhaps to get some photos of the Naval contingent of the Honour Guard. I thought they might have been photo'd outside in groups or something like that - I would think that many VC's in one place at one time might have created a sensation worth photographing - I know if it happened today there would be massive media coverage - different time I guess! I dont have a VC by any means, but I have one of the Naval CGM's & have only just learned about the Honour Guard gallantry medal winners participation in the ceremony. Again, thanks for the responses! Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 31 May , 2004 Author Share Posted 31 May , 2004 I thought some readers might want to view the complete listing of the members of the Honour Guard at the ceremony - its on the Victoria Cross webpage at: www.victoriacross.org.uk/aaunksol.htm This page is credited to Iain Stewart (Dec 2002), & kindly sent to me by member Dirty Dick during our correspondence regarding WWI submariners medals. Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 31 May , 2004 Share Posted 31 May , 2004 Tom I've managed to get the picture on the screen now - it's an interior shot of the Abbey entitled 'After the interment - The public filing past the grave.' It would have been good [for us] if they had chosen a more inspiring subject, but perhaps it was supposed to be symbolic! I don't think I can put it on the Forum as the images only save as bitmaps or .png files. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 31 May , 2004 Share Posted 31 May , 2004 I don't know if this link will work Unknown Soldier Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 4 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 4 June , 2004 The photos of the tomb of the unknown soldier are very nice - thanks for posting them. Tom had mentioned earlier that he thought that the event in the Abbey might not have been photo'd due to the dark conditions & long exposure times req'd at that time, but I note that these photos appear to be very bright & clear for the time - so the event must have been photo'd INSIDE the Abbey. So wondering if there are any more photos taken inside the Abbey recording the ceremony & participants?? Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 4 June , 2004 Share Posted 4 June , 2004 Tom had mentioned earlier that he thought that the event in the Abbey might not have been photo'd due to the dark conditions & long exposure times req'd at that time, but I note that these photos appear to be very bright & clear for the time - so the event must have been photo'd INSIDE the Abbey. Look at the photo posted by Lee, especially on the right hand side. Look at the strong and long shadows falling from the man of the cloth. I think there was enough natural/artificial light on that day...... I'm sure you will find that there are more photos out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 4 June , 2004 Share Posted 4 June , 2004 The photos of the tomb of the unknown soldier are very nice - thanks for posting them. Tom had mentioned earlier that he thought that the event in the Abbey might not have been photo'd due to the dark conditions & long exposure times req'd at that time, but I note that these photos appear to be very bright & clear for the time - so the event must have been photo'd INSIDE the Abbey. So wondering if there are any more photos taken inside the Abbey recording the ceremony & participants?? Bryan As Bryan says, the photos were taken inside the Abbey but obviously under ideal conditions with the people all posed and standing still, and with two shots of the same group of people just to make sure. No doubt the photographers were also able to set up their lighting. There are other photos like this, made into postcards. One of them shows the Unknown Warrior's (empty) coffin in position over the grave, taken about November 7th. and with no people in the shot. If there were no photos taken during the ceremony then the difficulties of getting a clear photo may have been one reason. But I also understand that it simply wasn't allowed. This is why the main illustrated newspapers at the time had to content themselves with artists' impressions of the scene. If photos during the ceremony had been allowed then these publications would have had them, I'm sure. Having said that - I, too, would love some photos taken during the ceremony to come to light. What WAS allowed was gramophone recording. The "Times" sponsored the UK's first commercial electric recordings using microphones, which were made inside the Abbey during the ceremony and featured the music, mostly, I think. I'd love to hear these recordings, too. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 4 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 4 June , 2004 I seem to recall reading somewhere, dont recall where unfortunately, (perhaps it was on one of the history programs that run around Nov 11) but was this not the 1st ocassion that a speech by King GeoV was recorded?? I remember hearing him speaking on a very scratchy recording & thought at the time that he had very little accent, as I read somewhere else that in his early yrs in the RN he had more of a german accent, similar to his father. Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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