4thGordons Posted 17 June , 2010 Share Posted 17 June , 2010 Apologies for the novice question. I have picked up a few medals on the way but an not really a medal collector. Having said this....I just bought a small set of medals to a Gordon (7th Bn) which I couldn't resist because it came with a really nice photo of a group of Gordon NCOs (presumably including the recipient), an NCO cap badge and swatch of tartan and a few other odds and ends, including an interesting "soldiers' prayer" card bearing the instructions to "place it in your cap" Which I had not seen previously . In addition to the 14/15star, BWM and Victory the group contained a TF efficiency medal (and a couple of ribbon bars made up and including this) The TF medal is not named (it appears as though it might be erased although I do not know if they were originally named) The TF medal is not indicated on his MIC (are they? I suspect not) nor do I see it (obviously) on the surviving bits of his record (this was the other attraction a quick search on Ancestry showed several pages of his record existed) So, my (now long winded) question is- where are TF efficiency medals recorded and is it possible to establish eligibility? Clearly everything in the group suggests eligibility so the most obvious explanation for the medal (if it is indeed erased) is that it is a replacement for a lost medal. My intention was to find a way (shadow box or some such) to display the group all together. Thanks in advance, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27thBN Posted 17 June , 2010 Share Posted 17 June , 2010 Quite often shown on his mic . They where all named so you are probably correct on it being amother for a lost one. Nice little set of items. MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 17 June , 2010 Share Posted 17 June , 2010 My understanding, and I could be wrong, is that the Territorial Force War Medal was usually annotated on the Medal Index Card. I believe the Territorial Force Efficiency Medal had a separate Index Card and is in the WO372/24 series at the National Archives. A search here... http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...amp;queryType=1 should tell you if there's a card for him in the WO372/24 series. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmania Posted 17 June , 2010 Share Posted 17 June , 2010 Chris Lists of names of those awarded the medal were published in Army Orders. Aled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnr.ktrha Posted 17 June , 2010 Share Posted 17 June , 2010 Have you searched the National Archive MIC cards online? The TFEM usually has it's own card, so it is not often listed on the war time medals MIC. Not all the MIC's are on Ancestry, yet. Here's a link to the search engine- http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...amp;queryType=1 Happy hunting, Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 17 June , 2010 Author Share Posted 17 June , 2010 Thanks very much indeed everyone, very useful. I did do a NA search and turned up only one MIC (which is the one on Ancestry)... I did not find any other one. If anyone is interested in double checking the ID is: MacKie, John Gordon Highlanders 2405 Corporal/Gordon Highlanders 2405 Serjeant (pre war TF number 2405/7) He joined the TF in 1911 and was discharged from the Army (time expired) in Feb 1916 as a Sjt. (which is in itself interesting to me as the first one like this I have run accross, no indication of subsequent service) 5 pages of his record exist on Ancestry and the TF medal is not listed in the awards and decorations section there although his promotions to L/cpl, cpl and Srj are detailed. Thanks very much again Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 17 June , 2010 Share Posted 17 June , 2010 He joined the TF in 1911 and was discharged from the Army (time expired) in Feb 1916 as a Sjt. (which is in itself interesting to me as the first one like this I have run accross, no indication of subsequent service) Chris TFEM was, if I remember correctly, awarded for 12 years service (war years counted double). If he only served five years from 1911 then that wouldn't be enough to qualify. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Johnson Posted 17 June , 2010 Share Posted 17 June , 2010 Some Territorials were less than clear on the regulations governing medals. My wife's grandfather (Civil Service Rifles 1913-1919) applied during his R.C.A.F. service during the Second War for the TFWM and Efficiency Medal. He had the 1914-15 Star, so wasn't qualified for the TFWM, and he didn't have the 12 years for the Efficiency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 17 June , 2010 Author Share Posted 17 June , 2010 Thanks very much...food for thought. Sorry to ask another beginner question.... Can TFE medals be dated in any way? What I am thinking of is if there was subsequent TF service (1916-39?) is it possible the medal was earned then? This would presumably be service not reflected in his WWI record/files. Perhaps not appropriate to this section of the forum but he would have been in his mid 20s in 1916 when he was time expired. Would he then have been eligible for conscription upon discharge? As a Sjt. with a year's service in France, I would have thought him the sort of individual that would have been sought in a training role etc, clearly there may be other factors/circumstances not reflected in the record. Group is pictured below: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 17 June , 2010 Share Posted 17 June , 2010 The Medal You illustrate is the "Efficiency Medal" [Territorial] or EM[T] it is a new {& seperate} award from the TEFM & TEM of 1908~30} dating from 1930 {ie George V issues would only date from 1930 to 1937 @ Latest to cover the reign of Edward VIII,} it would have been named to the Recipient. The Ribbon should be the later Green Ribbon with Yellow edges*; not as is mounted which is the earlier 1908~20 Ribbon.possibly he lost the TEM/TEFM & replaced it with a later version {MiC for these,usually only have surname & Initials so to check use number{s} & Surname no Forenames} or the ribbon bars may be for someone elses group & he added them,a not uncommon occurence... HB * There appears to be a ribbon bar for the EM[T] as well as a Queen's South Africa 1899~1902 Medal Ribbon,on the 1914 Christmas Tin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 18 June , 2010 Author Share Posted 18 June , 2010 See....now I remember why I stay away from medals... Thanks for that, once my head stops spinning I will see if I can make sense of the "set". I did the search as you suggested and found only the same MIC. Thanks again, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Marshall Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 What Harry has described as a QSA ribbon, I would have said was a Territorial Force War Medal Ribbon. Are you able to confirm the colours, Chris? Cheers, Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 What Harry has described as a QSA ribbon, I would have said was a Territorial Force War Medal Ribbon. Are you able to confirm the colours, Chris? I think the one he was referring to is actually a miniature ribband bar for the Star, BWM and VM... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Marshall Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 Yes, it is. Well spotted Andrew. Cheers, Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 "Doh!!" Shudda Gone ta SpekShavers!!! HB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Marshall Posted 13 January , 2011 Share Posted 13 January , 2011 I did....... and still got it wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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