Americans serving in British Army

[westkent78]

Hello all,

A post a while back ruminated on the lack of modern films about WW1, the possibilty of exposing new theories/understandings of the war to the general film-going public and the debunking of many longstanding myths.

I've been thinking about possibly creating a screenplay illustrating trench warfare and life behind the lines.

With the advent of computer technology and the perceived film-making environment where war films are more acceptable and accessible, now may be the time to create a WW1 epic.

As most of us know, any big budget film these days is not going to get made unless it is marketable to the US public- sad but true. They in turn are not going to be interested in a film which has no "homegrown" talent. I doubt if any of us wants to see a "Hollywood" version of trench warfare a la "Pearl Harbor", and US official involvement has been treated in "The Lost Battalion".

So the issue arises of how to get a US actor/s into a film about the British Army's experience in WW1.

I'm aware of US citizens who served in the Canadian Armed Forces, and of coures there was the Lafayette Squadron in French service, the Eagle Squadron in WW2, and I've also come across individuals serving in the Yeomanry and other regiments in the Boer War.

So, after that preamble, I'll get to the question. Do members know of any Americans serving in the British Army, particularly the infantry, prior to US official involvement and preferably 1915-16? Is this even feasible?

Apologies to Chris if he deems this should go in another category to "Soldiers", but I think it has relevance here.

Thanks for any help.

Matthew

[Desmond7]

Rfn. William Brown

Rfn. William Brown (pioneer) Newferry whose wife and young daughter reside at Culnafay has been killed in action

on July 1. He was the only son of Mr. and Mrs. William Brown of Newferry. He had emigrated to America three

years ago and returned in Christmas 1914, joining the army in the early spring of 1915 and went to the front with the

Ulster Division (16th Btn R.I.Rifles).

Rfn. Brown is the only recorded fatal casualty of the 16th (Pioneer) Battalion on July 1. However, the unit

was to remain in action well after the remainder of the Division were relieved on July 3.

[Paul Reed]

So, after that preamble, I'll get to the question. Do members know of any Americans serving in the British Army, particularly the infantry, prior to US official involvement and preferably 1915-16? Is this even feasible?

I have come across quite a few over the years; several of them are buried here on the Somme. I have never seen a figure, but the total must run into the 100s.

[Guest Jeff Floyd]

I've got three medal groups to Americans who served in the CEF, but none who served in the British forces in WWI.

Also a Scots Guards piper's Egypt pair and his Minnesota National Guard shooting awards, but he was retired by WWI.

[BeppoSapone]

5203 Private Arthur Guy Empey. Unit described as "Machine Gun Coy", 167 Brigade, 56 (London) Division. He wrote a couple of books about his experiences, and is supposed to have been part of a firing squad.

"This person was an American adventurer named Arthur Guy Empey, who

volunteered to serve in the British Army. In his book, "Over the Top,"

published in 1917, a photo of his ID bracelet, though difficult to read,

identifies him as Pte. A.G. Empey, No. 5203, Machine Gun Coy., 167 Brigade,

56 Division (56 might be 36). One night he was detailed to serve in a

firing party. He didn't mention a place or date because he was ordered to

keep silent, the war was still on when he wrote, and mentioning particulars

would have interrupted the narrative.

The numbers in the firing party were chosen at random. According to Empey,

the officer in charge didn't read the verdict of the court-martial to the

firing squad. Instead, Empey later found out what the offense had been

through the "grapevine," but didn't record it for posterity. The author

intimates that, when the order to fire was given, he deliberately missed.

As he said, "I could see the splinters [of the barn wall] fly. Someone

else had received the rifle containing the blank cartridge, but my mind was

at ease, there was no blood of a Tommy on my hands."

He continues, "It was near daylight. After marching about five minutes, we

were dismissed with the following instructions from the officer in command:

'Return alone, to your respective companies, and remember, no talking about

this affair, or else it will go hard with the guilty ones.'"

"We needed no urging to get away. I did not recognize any of the men on

the firing squad, even the officer was a stranger to me."

"The victim's relations and friends in Blighty will never know that he was

executed; they will be under the impression that he died doing his bit for

King and Country. In the public casualty lists his name will appear under

the caption 'Accidentally Killed,' or 'Died."

"The day after the execution I received orders to report back to the line,

and to keep a still tongue in my head."

"Executions are a part of the day's work but the part we hated most of all,

I think - certainly the saddest. The British War Department is thought by

many people to be composed of rigid regulations all wound around with red

tape. But it has a heart, and one of the evidences of this is the

considerate way in which an execution is concealed and reported to the

relative of the unfortunate man. They never know the truth. He is listed

in the bulletins as among the 'accidentally killed."

Although Empey's point about concealing executions seems to be appallingly

insensitive by our standards, I think he was being sincere, and I put it in

the context of his place and time.

What puzzles me is the apparent contradiction. On the one hand, I thought

death by firing squad for several military offenses was supposed to

discourage imitation. On the other hand, if Empey's account can be given

any credit, I don't see how this end could have been served if the War

Office took pains to conceal the executions and hush them up.

While I'm on the subject of Arthur Guy Empey, does anyone know what became

of him? He seems to have survived the war. After being wounded while on a

trench raid, he was evacuated to England and was a convalescent at the

American Women's War Hospital, apparently at a place called Paignton. When

he'd recovered he wrote a second book, "First Call," and lectured American

servicemen headed overseas. He wasn't a literary giant but he was a

colorful character."

Source: http://www.ku.edu/carrie/archives/wwi-l/19...1/msg00937.html

However, the "firing squad" story could have been a device to sell more books since Julian Putkowski did a follow up to the above in which he wrote:

"I investigated this in some detail when I came across

Empey's work a few years ago. It's unsubstantiated -

there is absolutely no known case of a British soldier

being executed on 18.5.16 (p.220 in my edition of the

book). Nor were any men serving with 56 Division executed

between the time 167 MGC, Empey's unit joined the

Division (March 1916) and 1917.

>From his Medal Roll card in Public Record Office series:

WO329, Arthur Guy Empey, 1st Bn London Regiment, Pte. No.

5203 did serve on the Western Front, having volunteered

"when the Lusitania was sunk" (7.5.15). His medal

entitlement was confined to the Victory Medal and the

card notes "Returned (1743 KR) 7956 Adt.". Empey was also

seriously wounded for the only other entry on his card

notes "SWB List TP419"."

[BeppoSapone]

While I'm on the subject of Arthur Guy Empey, does anyone know what became

of him? He seems to have survived the war. After being wounded while on a

trench raid, he was evacuated to England and was a convalescent at the

American Women's War Hospital, apparently at a place called Paignton. When

he'd recovered he wrote a second book, "First Call," and lectured American

servicemen headed overseas. He wasn't a literary giant but he was a

colorful character."

Good grief!

I did a little work looking for a post war Arthur Guy Empey, and it looks as if he became a silent movie star.

He was in a film called "Over the Top" as Sgt. James Garrison "Garry" Owen. From the farcical story line given I doubt that the film was that close to his book of the same name.

http://www.afi.com/members/catalog/DetailV...s=1&Movie=17213

[Ralph J. Whitehead]

I did a check throught the Soldier's Died CD and came across many references to British soldiers listing U.S. places of birth. It would seem that while some recent immigrants returned to serve they were accompanied by U.S. born men of British descent.

I have come across the same with Americans serving in the German army, some are returning immigrants, others were born here and returned to fight as well.

Ralph

[22402947]

My Father (Sydney H. Chapin) was an American citizen, born in New York City. He joined the British Army in 1896, served in the Matabele War of that year, served throught the Boer War 1899-1902, and the 1914-1918. Never gained British citizenship although he lost his American citizenship in 1908 for taking an oath to King Edward Vll.

Montague Chapin 22402947

[BeppoSapone]

My Father (Sydney H. Chapin) was an American citizen, born in New York City. He joined the British Army in 1896, served in the Matabele War of that year, served throught the Boer War 1899-1902, and the 1914-1918. Never gained British citizenship although he lost his American citizenship in 1908 for taking an oath to King Edward Vll.

Montague Chapin 22402947

Doesn't Frank Richards mention serving in India with an American soldier? In "Old Soldier Sahib".

[Guest Pete Wood]

There were a few American pilots who joined the RFC. One was shot down by MvR - 2/Lt George Helliwell Harding.

[Clive Maier]

I would like to reassert the undeniable. That 95 percent of the world – that’s practically all of it – is not the USA. So I reject the initial premise that to be successful, a film must be made for American sensibilities. Neither need it cost untold millions, by the way. The problem is not that other cultures are unmarketable. It is that film distribution arrangements are designed to prevent them being marketed. As I write this in Kent, France is closer – much closer - than Birmingham but it is practically impossible to see a French film here. That does not mean they are not making any. It is the distribution arrangement that should be overthrown and that can be done by film makers having confidence in their own cultures and by utilising new channels like the internet and DVD.

[michaeldr]

I wonder if anyone has ever thought of making movie on the life of John Bigelow Dodge.

He was born in New York in 1894 and educated in the U.S. and Canada

Fought at Antwerp, Gallipoli and on the W.F. with the RND

Also served in the British Army in WWII, was captured by the Germans and took part in ‘The Great Escape’

He became a Brit in 1915 and twice tried to stand for parliament

See his potted biography here

He has my vote for ‘interesting Yank’

Regards

Michael D.R.

[westkent78]

Thanks for all the responses. Much food for thought there.

On a related theme:

I've come across numerous soldiers commemorated on memorials in the Kent area who died serving in the Canadian, Australian and New Zealand forces, but none so far serving in American forces. Presumably there must have been some recent expats who served in the US armed forces rather than coming back to fight for the "old country". Has anybody come across a soldier commemorated for US service?

Thanks,

Matthew

[Simon Furnell]

Evening all.

I have read accounts of Americans during the 1st day of the Somme.

As someone has said,there were hundreds of them,and they served in most of the regiments,during the war.

There were the adventurers,and those guys that had emigrated,from what is known as the UK,now days,during the early part of the century.

I think these chaps made up the bulk of the American losses,during the early part of the war.

You are always going to go home,if your country of birth,is in danger.

Sounds like a marvellous project,a WW1 film,and one i have thought of myself.

Unfortunately,or fortunately,4 kids,no mortgage(which is a blessing),and not enough time.

We have all seen Saving Private Ryan,and Hollywood got away with that.

Time to show them,what real War was like,and with Brad Pitt in the cast.

Maybe we need to set up,The Great War Forum Film Company?

May even get Spielberg,to direct.

Don't see why not,with the knowledge that we have.

Good luck,and if i can help,give me a shout.

All the best.

Simon.

[Desmond7]

I've just had this thought about 'my nominee for the Brad Pitt' role - Pioneer William Brown. Is he unique in July 1 terms? Did any other 'involved unit' have only one fatal casualty on that day?

Des

[andigger]

Its been a while since this thread was brought up, so I thought I'd throw my two cents in.

Kitchner's Mob is the diary of an American who found himself in Europe at the outbreak of the war. He decided to join up and was fighting by the Fall of 1914. He is seriously wounded and returns to the US sometime in 1915. I am not sure if your film project is still on going, but you might look into this book.

Also, as regards the success of a film being in direct relation to its ability to capture the US market. I would disagree with that... there are many films which both intentionally and unintentionally flop here only to go on to rave reviews and high dollar revenues over seas. Asians (of all stripes) seem to love American movies. The same is also true of the small screen, for example CSI: Miami and Baywatch were/are wildly unsuccessful here but as I recall captured a huge following in Europe.

Andy

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Kitchener's Mob is the diary of an American

James Norman Hall 690 Royal Fusiliers,"Kitchener's Mob" originally published 1916 by Houghton Mifflin Co Boston & New York,my edition was originally property of the US Soldiers & Sailors Libraries,New England Division,War Service Library