Do You Know These Men?

[Terry Denham]

The collective brains of GWF may be able to help the In From the Cold Project with these men.

All the following are listed as having died on SDGW but do not appear in the CWGC Debt of Honour so they may be non-coms. However, they cannot be found in any of the usual death certificate reference lists and so their cases cannot progress. We have checked the MICs, service records etc but they do not help.

Does anybody out there know anything about these men? If you do (or can find a reference where we have failed!), you may be able to help get these men their proper commemoration. All help gratefully received. Thank you.

- Pte Clarence Edgar BARNES

27489 1/Royal Warwicks - Died 09.10.17 F&F

- CQMS Henry BARTLETT

6069 Highland Light Infantry - Died 23.10.14 UK

- Sjt George Roland BENNETT

7055 RGA - Died 01.03.17 UK

- Bdr Howarth BLAKEY

L/396 RFA - Died 01.09.17 F&F

- Gnr Edgar BRANSON

268890 RFA - Died 31.10.18 India

- Gnr William BRUCE

23027 RFA - Died 12.10.14 At Sea

[Chris_Baker]

Medal index card says Clarence Edgar Barnes was formerly 3880 Notts & Derbyshire Regiment. May help, I guess.

[stevem]

Terry

I have just found the following:

Bombardier Howarth Blakey

L/396 77th Royal Field Artillery

Died of Wounds 1st September 1917

Lived at 18 Raglan Road

Burnley Express

http://www.burnleyinthegreatwar.info/burnl...howarthl396.htm

May be of use.

Steve

[Terry Denham]

Steve/Chris

Thanks for that.

We have looked at the MICs and noted the N&D connection for Barnes. At least we know that Blakey actually existed now and his address may help.

[apwright]

Only one Howarth Blakey in the E&W BMDs. Born in Burnley 1895, living in Burnley in 1911 (18 Raglan Road!).

... married in Burnley in 1924, died in Burnley 1960 age 64.

Adrian

EDIT: You might have to get the marriage cert. to be sure. Married Elsie V LOMAX (Burnley Q3 1924, vol.8e, page 479).

[Terry Denham]

Adrian

Are you certain it's the same man? If so, that solves that one!

[CROONAERT]

Terry

I have just found the following:

Bombardier Howarth Blakey

L/396 77th Royal Field Artillery

Died of Wounds 1st September 1917

Lived at 18 Raglan Road

Burnley Express

http://www.burnleyinthegreatwar.info/burnl...howarthl396.htm

May be of use.

Steve

He doesn't appear at all in the Burnley Express (nor the Burnley News), nor is he listed on the Greater Burnley Roll of Honour as published post-war. I'll follow up with a check on the original draft report for the RoH in a minute, but it looks like he's mis-listed.

dave.

[CROONAERT]

I'll follow up with a check on the original draft report for the RoH in a minute, but it looks like he's mis-listed.

still to do that yet, but he wasn't at 18 Raglan Road by the time of the 1918 AVL compilation ...it was the home of 34766 pte Joseph Bates, 6/ELR by that time.

[CROONAERT]

Nope...not on the original draft for the RoH either. I can't find him in the Burnley AVL for 1918 and 1919 either , but it's in address order - and i don't know his address!

Dave

[CROONAERT]

Just to confirm... there have only been two Howarth Blakeys in Burnley. One died in the 1880's (so forget him). The other, as has been mentioned , died in early March 1960. He was living at 167 Branch Road, Burnley at the time of death and was born on 18th June 1895. Married to Elsie Victoria Blakey, he was cremated at Burnley crematorium on 12th March 1960 and his ashes scattered in the garden of remembrance there on 14th March.

... The cremation cost £4, 4s 0d and he has an entry in the 1960 Vol.1 book of remembrance if anyone's interested!!!

Don't think he qualifies, Terry!

dave

[Terry Denham]

Thanks, Dave

One off the list!

[Rob Bulloch]

Terry QMSM Henry Bartlett. 4th Bn HLI Extra Reserve. Born Kirkaldy Fife entered Dundee Died at home 23/10/14.

Rob.

[dundeesown]

Not sure if this helps.

Blakey

Residence: Burnley, Lancs

Death Date: 1 Sep 1917

Death Location: France & Flanders

Enlistment Location: Burnley

Rank: BDR.

Regiment: Royal Horse Artillery and Royal Field Artillery

Number: L/396

Type of Casualty: Died of wounds

Theatre of War: Western

(Ancestry)

Gary.

[John_Hartley]

Gary

Thanks for that but we already have the SDGW information.

John

[johnny_doyle]

Just to confirm... there have only been two Howarth Blakeys in Burnley. One died in the 1880's (so forget him). The other, as has been mentioned , died in early March 1960. He was living at 167 Branch Road, Burnley at the time of death and was born on 18th June 1895. Married to Elsie Victoria Blakey, he was cremated at Burnley crematorium on 12th March 1960 and his ashes scattered in the garden of remembrance there on 14th March.

... The cremation cost £4, 4s 0d and he has an entry in the 1960 Vol.1 book of remembrance if anyone's interested!!!

Don't think he qualifies, Terry!

dave

on Ancestry there is a service record for a Joseph Blakey of 18 Raglan Rd, Burnley. East Lancs Regt. Survived the war. Only family mentioned is a sister.

in the 1901 census on Ancestry there is 1 Howarth Blakey, supposedly aged 15. However, all the other children are listed in age order and he's the last which makes me think the 1 is actually a tick and that this is the Howarth Blakey born in 1895. One family tree on Genesreunited lists Howarth Blakely, Burnley, 1895.

[apwright]

Henry Bartlett of Kirkcaldy is an odd one!

Scotlandspeople shows only one man of that name born in the whole of Fifeshire up to 1942. He was born in Pathhead, Dysart, on 14 Dec 1884, married in Kirkcaldy in 1908 ... and died in Kirkcaldy in 1956. He was Dvr 837 in RFA. His service record is on Ancestry (service number indexed as 637).

The only Henry Bartletts to die in Scotland in 1914 were in their 60s and no mention of military service.

Adrian

[apwright]

There's a George Rowland Bennett on the 1911 census, born in Cole Ford [sic] Glos, c.1872 (Monmouth RD Q4 1871), living in Littledean Hill. He's married, with a 7yo son, and he's Assistant Superintendent for the Prudential Assurance Co.Ltd.

Can't find any trace of him after that.

Adrian

[grantowi]

There's a George Bennett's death registered in Stockport (8A / 51 / 2qt / 1917) aged 46, puts his birth at 1871 and according to TLLT there was a Hospital,Brinnington Neurological Section, in Stockport

Worth a gamble ?

Grant

[headgardener]

Sorry, I'm totally confused by this thread; there are people that are listed in SDGW that didn't actually die?

How did that happen?

I don't expect a case by case summary, of course, but does anyone have any plausible ideas for how this happened? Apart from the fog of war.

Apologies, I don't want to hijack the thread, just curious to know if there are there other instances of this? I remember reading about someone who was recorded as being killed but it was relatively recently discovered that they had survived the war and died in the 1960's or 70's. Administrative error? Deserter? I never discovered the truth behind it.

[CROONAERT]

; there are people that are listed in SDGW that didn't actually die?

How did that happen?

Basically...yes. There are a myriad of reasons behind it, but it should always be borne in mind that SDGW is far from infallible (as is the CWGC which is part of the reason behind the IFTC project - I think).

Dave

[CROONAERT]

One died in the 1880's (so forget him).

In response to an email I just received a couple of hours ago and to prevent any further ones of similar ilk... of course, I didn't literally mean 'forget him' just because he didn't die in the war. It was simply meant as 'discount him in this enquiry'... (which, to be honest, I thought was pretty obvious, but was ,apparantly, mistaken in that thought! ).

Dave

[Terry Denham]

Dave is right. There are some odd entries on SDGW. A few did not died etc and we have found two listed so far who died in 1913!

No list is perfect or complete.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed so far. Every snippet helps.

[Martin Bennitt]

This is all very interesting, and again no wish to hijack the thread, but conversely -- and this must be more difficult to adduce -- might there be anyone in the CWGC records as killed when in fact they survived the war?

cheers Martin B

[CROONAERT]

-- might there be anyone in the CWGC records as killed when in fact they survived the war?

i'd like to say 'possibly', but the answer is actually a definate 'yes' (there's one known to me due to some research conducted a while back (the guy died in about 1974, yet his name and details and 1917 date of death are on a headstone in Belgium). The full story is known to the man's family (and also to the family of the man who occupies 'his' grave), but the present generations still prefer things to remain as they are and so I cannot say more).

There also appears to be another (quite famous) possible case that originates from the same Isle.

Dave

[Robert Dale]

on Ancestry there is a service record for a Joseph Blakey of 18 Raglan Rd, Burnley. East Lancs Regt. Survived the war. Only family mentioned is a sister.

in the 1901 census on Ancestry there is 1 Howarth Blakey, supposedly aged 15. However, all the other children are listed in age order and he's the last which makes me think the 1 is actually a tick and that this is the Howarth Blakey born in 1895. One family tree on Genesreunited lists Howarth Blakely, Burnley, 1895.

Howarth Blakey is in the 1911 Census at the same address, age 15 (transcript gives 1896 as birth year) a cotton weaver. There are 8 siblings - including Joseph - three sisters and four brothers.

Robert