Unofficial war graves

[Michael]

This grave is in a Kent churchyard and I guess its not a CWGC stone. My question is - where did they get the tooling for the Buffs badge ? Are they supplied by CWGC ?

[Guest Pete Wood]

By tooling, I take it you mean the pattern for the badge....??

Because any modern (computerised) cutting machine needs a bitmap or vector pattern (drawing) in order to cut the stone. The Imperial War Museum has copies of (all?) the CWGC drawings, showing unit badges. I am due to see them all in the next two weeks.

The original stones, as shown in a photo on a recent thread http://1914-1918.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=11987 were chiselled by hand, 'based' on the same drawings.. As Terry D has found, this has invariably led to some minor differences between badges (from the same unit).

So it depends when the stone was cut, and by whom (if the stone was cut by hand - or whether it was done by machine).

I don't know how the early, non-computerised stone cutting machines worked; I suspect, as I now think you are suggesting, that some sort of carved wooden former was used. If so, I am guessing that this would first have been carved based on a drawing/photo of a badge on another grave.

[Terry Denham]

This is a headstone which breaches all the conventions as it is a Non-World War headstone and should have the corners clipped off. These 'errors' are not common but do occur - usually through ignorance of custom and practice.

Older badges were hand carved to a pattern and therefore they all vary. As RT has said, I have recently been looking into this and found that there are virtually no two badges the same - until you get to the modern computer produced versions and these differ from the basic hand carved versions considerably.

The headstone pictured was supplied by the next-of-kin and not CWGC. The Commission only supplies headstones for war graves which this is not. Most stonemasons know the war grave style and are able to reproduce it.

[Michael]

Terry, RT

Thanks for the info. I find it incredible that the guy's date of death isn't recorded, just his war service.

[crispy]

On a visit to my late fathers grave in our village, I could not belive what I saw, that being a grave from the 1930`s that I had passed countless times, it apeared to be a war grave, as I tend to spot them from anywhere, on closer inspection to see what badge was on it and the servicemans details etc, I was surprised to see that it was that of a civilian with the badge of the Royal British Legion engraved on it.

I have been left wondering if this is a fairly common practice, or something unusual, knowing of my interest in military matters several people have asked me if I had seen any others like it.

Not wanting to cause offence to anybody I had thought about writing to the RBL or CWGC to find the answer, and have put off asking Terry who I suspect will know the answer.

Terry is war grave like headstone common to late members of the RBL, perhaps to someone who held an important position within the Legion during their lifetime?

David.

[Terry Denham]

David

There is no control over who can have a Non-World War headstone (or CWGC-like but modified headstone). Anyone can have one made up by a stonemason.

However, they tend to be on the graves of service personnel who died outside the CWGC war grave dates or 'old soldiers' who took a pride in their serving in the forces or who had outstanding records. However, I have seen one on the grave of someone who had never had any connection with the military and just 'fancied one'!

Personally, I have never seen a Non-World War headstone to an RBL member. However, I can well imagine that a long serving branch member or official could have such a memorial. I don't think that they will be that common. In the 1930s, the man concerned would almost certainly have WW1 service to his name.

The local branch of the RBL may know all about him if you enquire. It will have no connection with CWGC.

[Jock Bruce]

Mooching round Tidworth Military Cemetery last week, I noticed a fair number of Non-World War graves of service wives and children with the 'shouldered' style of stone and an angel where the regimental badge would usually be.

I also got the impression (no more) that the post-WW2 shouldered stomes were much more uniform than those from the inter-war period.

Jock

[Terry Denham]

Jock

You are right about the inter-war stones.

The concept of a standard style (optional) for Non-World War casualties only seemed to take root during the 1940s although I have seen such stones from the 1930s (they may have been newer replacement stones).

[crispy]

Terry.

Yet again my thanks to you for your comprehensive reply, at least I will now be able to tell locals that the headstone concerned is not CWGC, it had not really occured to me untill after I asked you the question, just how many people in the village have in fact asked me about the headstone concerned.

David.

[Terry Denham]

David

The only sort of connection with CWGC will be that the design was inspired by the official war graves.

CWGC can only expend funds on maintaining official war graves and therefore have no hand in these lookalike stones.