Ann Yarwood Posted 9 May , 2010 Share Posted 9 May , 2010 You helped me so much with my recent query, I thought I'd give this one a go too. I have a soldier who served in WWI then died in the great flu pandemic in 1919. The family story is, he had a military funeral, his body was carried through the streets on a gun carriage before being laid to rest at Ford cemetery in Liverpool. We have his military service records, family details and census info but no photo, or a death notice or, an obituary so far. As it's going to be a while before I get to the newspaper archive in Liverpool (or the cemetery), any chance anyone could help with any of that here? Here are his details: Joseph McDonough T2/016118 Driver 17th Div. Train, Royal Army Service Corps. Enlisted Liverpool 14/10/1914 - Died in UK whilst on leave of influenza 26/3/1919 Thanks as usual, Ann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 9 May , 2010 Share Posted 9 May , 2010 I presume you have his CWGC details Name: McDONOUGH, JOSEPH Initials: J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Driver Regiment/Service: Royal Army Service Corps Unit Text: 17th Div. Train Age: 33 Date of Death: 26/03/1919 Service No: T2/016118 Additional information: Son of Mrs. Mary A. McDonough; husband of Norah McDonough, of 46, Bevington Bush, Liverpool. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Screen Wall 1914/18 (RD. 273). Cemetery: LIVERPOOL (FORD) ROMAN CATHOLIC CEMETERY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzy Posted 9 May , 2010 Share Posted 9 May , 2010 Check out the Crosby Herald in Crosby Library which i assume was the nearest Newspaper as there may be a mention in the localised press rather than the Echo and Post which covered all the Liverpool district. The Bonus is that most of the papers have been indexed and if you phone the Library up they can usually check there and then which saves a journey.Good luck with your research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfaulder Posted 9 May , 2010 Share Posted 9 May , 2010 Two thoughts come to mind: For an RASC driver to be "taken on a gun carriage" implies something special; if this is the case the RC cathedral archives may have some record of a correspondingly special funeral. Alternatively "taken on a gun carriage" may be a fogged memory; would there have been so many flu deaths that carts went around the streets to collect the dead? Liverpool archives (or even Google) may reveal general records about how the city coped with the flu epidemic. Does the reference in the CWGC records to a "screen wall" imply a mass grave? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peridot Posted 9 May , 2010 Share Posted 9 May , 2010 I believe there is still a cuttings library extant for the Echo and Daily Post at their office in Old Hall Street, and you should be able to speak to the librarian directly if you ask to be put through. If the funeral was as you describe it I would have thought it must have been reported and if you have the date of death it should not be too much trouble to locate it in the files. Peridot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Thompson Posted 9 May , 2010 Share Posted 9 May , 2010 Hi there David, The 2 screen walls I have seen in Leeds Cemeteries have been erected and all the names and locations of the graves have been inscribed upon them, the one at Harehills cemetery surrounds the Cenotaph, the one at Killingbeck is on the main drive and and no Cenotaph. Cheers Roger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulsterlad2 Posted 9 May , 2010 Share Posted 9 May , 2010 Does the reference in the CWGC records to a "screen wall" imply a mass grave? Not 100% certain but I don't think so. From memory (a cwgc pdf magazine article). Screen walls were used to commemorate casualties in those cemeteries where local regulations prevented the use of individual headstones and also to commemorate those who were cremated. I don't recall reading anything about mass graves but of course can't rule it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann Yarwood Posted 9 May , 2010 Author Share Posted 9 May , 2010 Auchonvillerssomme - yes we do have the CWGC details, but thanks for taking the trouble to check anyway. David's, your thoughts re the funeral have certainly given me something to think about. I'll look in to your suggestions. Izzy and Peridot - thanks for both your suggestions, I'll look into them both too. Thank you so much everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 10 May , 2010 Share Posted 10 May , 2010 would there have been so many flu deaths that carts went around the streets to collect the dead? Serious as it was the flu pandemic was not the Black Death so this is unlikely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Strawbridge Posted 11 May , 2010 Share Posted 11 May , 2010 Two thoughts come to mind: For an RASC driver to be "taken on a gun carriage" implies something special; if this is the case the RC cathedral archives may have some record of a correspondingly special funeral. Alternatively "taken on a gun carriage" may be a fogged memory; would there have been so many flu deaths that carts went around the streets to collect the dead? Liverpool archives (or even Google) may reveal general records about how the city coped with the flu epidemic. Does the reference in the CWGC records to a "screen wall" imply a mass grave? David A gun carriage may not be as special as you may think. I know of a munition worker who was conveyed on a gun carriage because her brother was in the R.A. and was able to "borrow" one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saberhagen427 Posted 11 May , 2010 Share Posted 11 May , 2010 Military funerals were not necessarily that unusual for soldiers who died in Britain. One of my relatives, Charles Wenham, died in hospital from a gunshot wound in 1917. The local paper reported his death very briefly and mentioned that he would have a military funeral, but there was no report from the funeral itself, so it probably wasn't regarded as all that special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kathleen donaldson Posted 13 June , 2010 Share Posted 13 June , 2010 His funeral may have been reported in The Liverpool Catholic Herald available on microfilm at Liverpool Record Office Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann Yarwood Posted 13 June , 2010 Author Share Posted 13 June , 2010 Hi Kathy, Thanks for that suggestion, much appreciated. Unfortunately the record office (known locally as the Picton) has just closed for a refurbishment programme - for two years Hopefully they'll make interim arrangements, but there are none so far as I'm aware as yet. Will see if I can find it elsewhere though so thanks. Regards, Ann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrim Posted 13 June , 2010 Share Posted 13 June , 2010 I was wondering whether the fact that your man was a Driver may have influenced how his funeral was carried out. Possibly he drove horses rather than "motors' and his comrades wanted to do it up special for him. He was a Long Service man, having enlisted 14/10/14, and might have received special consideration because of that. My Grandfather enlisted 12/11/14 and had "Long Service" written on his Protection Certificate so I presume those men rated a little better treatment than most. Coincidently, he died from war related ailments on the same day as your man. He received military honors at the cemetary only as the burial took place some distance from where he died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann Yarwood Posted 13 June , 2010 Author Share Posted 13 June , 2010 I was wondering whether the fact that your man was a Driver may have influenced how his funeral was carried out. Possibly he drove horses rather than "motors' and his comrades wanted to do it up special for him. He was a Long Service man, having enlisted 14/10/14, and might have received special consideration because of that. My Grandfather enlisted 12/11/14 and had "Long Service" written on his Protection Certificate so I presume those men rated a little better treatment than most. Coincidently, he died from war related ailments on the same day as your man. He received military honors at the cemetary only as the burial took place some distance from where he died. That's an interesting thought Tyrim. And I'm thinking you're probably right about the horses rather than motors. And what an interesting coincidence too. I just think it was so sad that so many of them managed to survive all that horror, only to be killed by flu soon afterward. Regards Ann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrim Posted 13 June , 2010 Share Posted 13 June , 2010 Ann Very sad indeed but we have to take our comfort where we can. At least they had a chance to be home with their families before they died. So many others who were lost were denied even that. Tyrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kathleen donaldson Posted 20 June , 2010 Share Posted 20 June , 2010 The Liverpool Record Office is still open till the end of June so you have two weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann Yarwood Posted 20 June , 2010 Author Share Posted 20 June , 2010 Sadly, won't have a chance to get there til the summer holidays But thanks. Ann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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