Colt M1911 pistol in .455 calibre

[ahargitt]

I'm trying to write a First World War story, and there is one question which I cannot find the answer to.

The question is: would it be possible and/or plausible for an officer of a K1 New Army division, sent to the Western Front in May/June 1915, to be equipped with a privately purchased Colt M1911 pistol rechambered to take the British .455 round?

I know the Colt company made M1911 pistols that were rechambered to take the standard British service revolver round. What I do not know is whether they started making them early enough for an officer in a K1 division to be given one prior to embarking for France/Belgium in early 1915.

I am hoping that there will be someone out there who is enough of a weapons buff to be able to tell me.

Over to you guys...

[Doc2]

The round involved was not the .455 revolver round, but the .455 Webley automatic round-- very different. I am unaware of any commercial .455 M1911 in that era. About 10,000 were sold to the British Government, but I have never seen a reference to a commercial one that early. I would find it unlikely, as the guns were not quite the same (.455 had a wider magazine well and different magazines), and there would have been no economic benefit to Colt to produce them for commercial sale. Could a government contract one have "walked off the assembly line" and been sold commercially? I am sure you could make up a story about it, but I think it would be easier to assume that your protagonist obtained one in .45. Unfortunately, all my pistol reference books are currently in storage, so I can't look it up for you to confirm the above, but there are several good books available on the M1911 and all its variants, so production information should be available. Doc

[TonyE]

The reasons for the confusion about the calibre of these pistols is twofold. First many people are not aware of the existence of the .455 inch Self Loading round, and the other is that the magazines are usually stamped ".455 ELEY" on the base, a term normally used in America for the .455 inch revolver round.

To answer your question, the first order of 200 pistols of the modified Colt Government Model was shipped on 19th July 1915. These had been ordered by the London Armoury Company (LAC), Colt's London agents. These pistols were serial numbered in the normal commercial Government Model serial range except they had a prefix of "W" for "Webley" instead of the normal "C". Serial numbers were W19001 to W19200.

There was no further delivery until 10th January 1916 when 400 pistols were shipped to LAC serialled beteen W29001 and W29444. Direct contracts were then placed by the Ministry of Munitions from June 1916, first via LAC and then to Colt for about 13,000 pistols including the two contracts totalling 10,000 pistols placed for the RFC/RAF..

Since Webley were well behind on manufacture of the Mark I SL pistol it is likely that the London Armoury ordered the first two hundred pistols for sale to both officers as a private purchase and to the War Office. There is no record of a War Office order to LAC for these before they were ordered from Colt. LAC sold some to the Army and Navy Stores for sale to officers, and the Ministry bought 25 back from the A & N in 1917.

Attached is a picture I posted previously of the .455 inch SL round with a steel inspector's dummy.

If you are placing your man in France in June 1915 then he could not have been armed with a Colt government Model in .455 inch calibre. However, LAC continued to import the normal .45 ACP model right through 1914 to 1916. There were 150 shipped on 3rd August 1914, 50 more on the 5th August etc ., etc. Should you want serial numbers of these I have them.

A minor detail, but the proper name for these pistols is the Colt Government Model. The Model 1911 is only the US service version.

Regards

TonyE

[Doc2]

Tony, thanks for correcting me. I thought the LAC initial order was on behalf of the British government, and thus not for civilian sale. Doc

[ahargitt]

Thanks very much guys - that's great knowledge, and of the kind that would be prohibitively expensive for me to buy through specialist books.

Very much appreciated.

Thanks and best wishes

Aidan

[ServiceRumDiluted]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I thought it might be worth it, I came across an item of trench art recently which I thought was a pencil holder made from 2 1917 dated .45ACP cases, not having an original I bought the item. I found that they were actually semi rimmed .455 cases, headstamped B 17 I. So I thought I'd post some pics along with a Colt.455 mag. I've had for a while as these seem to be pretty unusual items and not often seen.

[ServiceRumDiluted]

The pencil holder

The inner tube I've yet to identify.

[calibre792x57.y]

Yep, they're good. I bought a pouch of three pockets for the Sam Browne equipment with these magazines. I already had the pistol. Up to late 1916 Officers were given a grant to purchase their equipment including pistols. But by that time it was very difficult to find pistols commercially in the official calibre - i.e. 0.455 Eley revolver so they either purchased one from the Regimental Quarter-Master or bought a non standard calibre. However many forward thinking officers went for a self-loader anyway This one was made to British Government contract. for the R.F.C. The best pistol ever. - SW