Vimyridge Posted 2 May , 2010 Share Posted 2 May , 2010 Hi Guys/Gals Just would like to get your thoughts on this mills bomb No5 Mk1 (dated 1915) I am being offered it and I know little about them, are there any details or comments you could add. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimyridge Posted 3 May , 2010 Author Share Posted 3 May , 2010 This website I just found is quite interesting in that it illustrates the many base plugs http://www.millsgrenades.co.uk/No5%20Base%20Plugs2.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 3 May , 2010 Share Posted 3 May , 2010 This is a top class Mills Grenade. It is of the very early and rarer type know as a 'centrecast'. That is the body was made in two halves top and bottom, with the join in the middle. The body was then put on a lathe and the horizontal grooves machined in. The main characteristics of 'centrecasts' are the groove running down under the filler screw and the fact that the body is circular when viewed from above. It has all the right bits as well. The heavy slab sided lever and the small ring. It may be that the base plug is later than the grenade as Mills and other makers had mostly migrated to the standard body type with mouldings at the side. Known as 'sidecast' by Mills enthusiasts. I would expect this grenade to have been made between February 1915 and September 1915 and would probably have had an aluminium alloy baseplug that would match the filler screw. If you don't buy it get me first offer! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 3 May , 2010 Share Posted 3 May , 2010 Careful, John would swim the Atlantic to get to that! Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 3 May , 2010 Share Posted 3 May , 2010 That is a real beauty. GB has said most of it; all I can add is that it is nice to have part of the upper red filling band surviving, which you seldom see. That is what is known as beginner's luck. Grab this rarity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 3 May , 2010 Share Posted 3 May , 2010 Careful, John would swim the Atlantic to get to that! Mick Flippers are ready! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 3 May , 2010 Share Posted 3 May , 2010 I presume that it is inert?. Regards Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 3 May , 2010 Share Posted 3 May , 2010 I presume that it is inert?. Regards Norman Yes Norman, my flippers are inert. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 3 May , 2010 Share Posted 3 May , 2010 Thank G*D for that. Suggest unscrew baseplug and peer inside. If view blocked then post photo here and stand in back garden or at least 100 yards from the item. Bye Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 3 May , 2010 Share Posted 3 May , 2010 Thank G*D for that. Suggest unscrew baseplug and peer inside. If view blocked then post photo here and stand in back garden or at least 100 yards from the item. Bye Norman The filler plug's clearly been unscrewed. Not very likely to be ert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 3 May , 2010 Share Posted 3 May , 2010 Oh thats alright then! Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 3 May , 2010 Share Posted 3 May , 2010 Seadog makes a good point though, I have had always wondered what happened to the grenade Spike Milligan left hanging from a nail in his garden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 3 May , 2010 Share Posted 3 May , 2010 A very nice condition grenade, with the same good features as the previous one. Flanged lever, small ring, cast body, plus this one looks to have its original baseplug. Not that they and the bodies wouldn't have been mixed up anyway, but this one is just right for the grenade. Sorry I can't help on the absence of a month but no doubt someone can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 3 May , 2010 Share Posted 3 May , 2010 Ta WF, I was sitting looking at it earlier and thinking, I'm sure it must be, but you know that feeling where you're not quite sure.... TM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimyridge Posted 3 May , 2010 Author Share Posted 3 May , 2010 Thanks guys for the replies To answer some questions, yes it is inert, I know this because I pulled out the pin and tossed the grenade into the field....no explosion just kidding! And no it's not beginners luck, I've been collection Great war uniforms and other great war items for over 10 years...but never owned a grenade. The export and import law in Canada do not allow such items to be shipped here. Where the luck comes in is ....a good friend who's been collecting Canadian WW1 uniforms and other CEF goodies for many decades has slowly been selling off the collection and it comes to me first...so that is LUCKY AND i COUNT MY LUCKY STARS!!!! he is offering me this grenade, which I am taking (Sorry John, but you are more than welcome to visit if you come to Canada ) John, I'm not sure I can see the "groove running down under the filler screw" Should I be seeing a small line running down where the two halves would have been put together? Roger Here are some more photos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 4 May , 2010 Share Posted 4 May , 2010 John, I'm not sure I can see the "groove running down under the filler screw" I think what John means is that the early Mills have one of the vertical grooves lined up dead-centre with the filler screw, as opposed to later Mills where the screw was straddled either side by two grooves (example below): http://www.millsgrenades.co.uk/images/No5%...nal%20paint.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimyridge Posted 4 May , 2010 Author Share Posted 4 May , 2010 Ohhhh, now I understand.... LOL Thanks Andrew BTY Here is another item being offered to me from the same friend I am posting it to know if anyone has seen one of this style. The tip is of iron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 4 May , 2010 Share Posted 4 May , 2010 Hello all, As we have some who are versed in the art of the grenade, could you have a quick look at this one. I've never been fully up to speed on the old grenades but I assume this is one of these earlier centrecast jobs too. It seems to have all the features GB described. The base plug has the year but not the month? Or am I missing something? All contributions gratefully received. I've already learnt some things I didn't know today. Regards Tocemma Yes this is another centrecast and characteristicly is from 1915. Don't worry about the lack of the month on the plug. It was left off by some manufacturers and other (notably Elmbank in Scotland) even frequently left off the year. A nice grenade. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 4 May , 2010 Share Posted 4 May , 2010 Thanks guys for the replies To answer some questions, yes it is inert, I know this because I pulled out the pin and tossed the grenade into the field....no explosion just kidding! And no it's not beginners luck, I've been collection Great war uniforms and other great war items for over 10 years...but never owned a grenade. The export and import law in Canada do not allow such items to be shipped here. Where the luck comes in is ....a good friend who's been collecting Canadian WW1 uniforms and other CEF goodies for many decades has slowly been selling off the collection and it comes to me first...so that is LUCKY AND i COUNT MY LUCKY STARS!!!! he is offering me this grenade, which I am taking (Sorry John, but you are more than welcome to visit if you come to Canada ) John, I'm not sure I can see the "groove running down under the filler screw" Should I be seeing a small line running down where the two halves would have been put together? Roger Hi Roger You have a very good grenade there. Congratulations on an excellent find. Here are two photos that show the differences between centre cast and side cast Mills Bombs The first shows the grenades from above. Note that the centrecast is circular where it has been machined on a lathe, but the side cast has a bump on the sides where the join is made. The sidecast was about 20% less labour intensive to make than the centrecast (the original design) and the sidecase forms the majority of production. It is estimated that out of all WW1 grenades made (Nearly 75 million) less than 1% were centrecast. The second (front on) shows on the left, the vertical groove under the filler screw - this is centrecast. On the right is a more standard sidecast with grooves either side of the filler screw. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 4 May , 2010 Share Posted 4 May , 2010 John how many were made? as you know I have 2 so are they really that rare? Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 4 May , 2010 Share Posted 4 May , 2010 Roger Not implying that you're a novice collector! Just meant a beginner where grenades are concerned Interesting that this one is painted black. I have a No 5 with the early flanged lever that is also painted black. W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 4 May , 2010 Share Posted 4 May , 2010 Hi Mick Yes they are very rare. The original drawings for the Mills had the centre cast as the primary design, but it also showed the sidecast as an alternative casting. Mills had to train the manufacturers in production techniques personally and it obviously became clear to him that the centrecast was a lot harder to make and took more time to make. Consequently most firms started making the alternative casting from around August / September 1915. In the period February to September 1915 production only ran to about 300,000-500,000 grenades. So the total of centrecasts made is probably less than 1% of the total (75million for WW1) , assuming some makers carried on with the type towards the end of 1915. It's likely that the two you have were probably lost in the early days of the British presence on the Somme and the aluminium plugs rotted away leaving the bodies you found. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimyridge Posted 5 May , 2010 Author Share Posted 5 May , 2010 Roger Not implying that you're a novice collector! Just meant a beginner where grenades are concerned Interesting that this one is painted black. I have a No 5 with the early flanged lever that is also painted black. W. I know wainfleet, I just did not want you do think I was a newbie... Just havin; fun with ya... John Thanks so much for information...a wealth of knowledge, you must have on the subject! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 5 May , 2010 Share Posted 5 May , 2010 Just a small point in relation to the grenades shown - the safety pin should run the other way. i.e. when the grenade is held immediately prior to throwing the bomb will be turned so that the safety lever is placed in the web between thumb and fingers of the right hand. The ring will then be on the left looking down on the bomb so it is readily accessible to the left hand. Holding the lever with the fingers instead of the palm of the hand was one of the causes of accidents with the Number 5 as manufacturing tolerances sometimes allowed the striker to release with a small lift of the lever - before the user was prepared to throw. The Number 36 had a redesigned striker and lever to overcome this problem. Cheers - SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 5 May , 2010 Share Posted 5 May , 2010 Should have pointed out my comment about safety pins refers to the first two bombs shown - not the later posts. The first bomb is dated November 1915 - the absence of a month date on these grenades I believe indicates early production when there was a shortages in stamps and machine tools generally - but I could be wrong! The earliest in my own collection is a alloy base plug dated August 1915 - I would be interested if anyone can post pictures of any earlier. SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now