How to find when grandad changed regiments in 1917?

[Robert Goodale]

My grandfather Captain VR Chalk MC started his active service in December 1915 when he joined 8th Btn Duke of Wellington West Riding Reg. at Suvla Bay. This I know from the war dairy and various photographs, envelopes etc. He travelled with 11th Divison to Alexandra and then in June 1916 arrived in France. He was wounded at Havrincourt in May 1917 (I know this from his service papers), returned to England and was signed off until June1917. Then I don't know anything about him until he pops up in 9th KOYLI war diary when he takes out a patrol on the night of 23/12/16 to capture a German machine gun post (for which he got the MC). Still with this unit his platoon was surrounded by the Germans just south of Guyencourt on the first day of the Kaiserschlatt, which he survived somehow after close range combat, and then he was wounded a second time at Kemmel in April 1918 when the Germans had their second go up there. My question is --how do I find out WHEN he went from 8 DW West Riding to 9 KOYLI sometime in the second half of 1917?

On my visit to the UK (I live in Australia) I did not find much help from the PRO Army List as I read it--has him down as 11 KOYLI in 1915 and 1916--when he was with West Riding, and from Dec 1916 he was down as 1st & 2nd Btn KOYLI, when he was still with WR when he was injured in May 1917. Do the more experienced out there in forum land have any suggestions how I find out--I just need that to complete the picture of his war record.

Thanks in advance--Robg. My first post on this great forum!

[Hywyn]

Rob

Welcome to the Forum

This is from London Gazette 30376 dated 9th Nov 1917 page 11664 and is under West Riding Regiment. I don't know whether it helps or not.

Temp. 2nd Lt. V. R.- Chalk, from York.

' L.I. (attd>); to <be temp. 2nd Lt. 12 Oct.

1916, with seniority 5 May 1915, and actgi

.Capt. while comidg. a Co. 12 Oct. 1916 to

28 Oct.- 1916.

Hywyn

[Robert Goodale]

Hi Hywyn, thanks for your response. That was certainly my grandfather, but does this suggest that he was at least with the West Riding regiment until 28th October 1916?

Rob

Welcome to the Forum

This is from London Gazette 30376 dated 9th Nov 1917 page 11664 and is under West Riding Regiment. I don't know whether it helps or not.

Temp. 2nd Lt. V. R.- Chalk, from York.

' L.I. (attd>); to <be temp. 2nd Lt. 12 Oct.

1916, with seniority 5 May 1915, and actgi

.Capt. while comidg. a Co. 12 Oct. 1916 to

28 Oct.- 1916.

Hywyn

[Stebie9173]

Further Gazette entries to mull over:

London Gazette 22-4-1918

Yorks. L.I.

Temp. 2nd Lt. H. G. Houchin relinquishes the actg. rank of Capt. on ceasing to comd. a Co. 4 Feb. 1918.

Temp. Lt. V. R. Chalk, M.C. (W. Rid. R.), to be actg. Capt. while comdg. a Co. 25 Jan. 1918.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/306...upplements/4813

London Gazette 5-6-1918

Yorks. L.I.

Temp. Lt. V. R. Chalk, M.C., from W. Rid. R., to be temp. Lt. (with seniority 1 July 1917), and to be actg. Capt. while comdg. a Co. 25 Jan. 1918. (Substituted for Gaz. notification 22 Apr. 1918, omitting transfer.)

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/307...upplements/6666

He may have been attached to the KOYLI before that, however. The Gazette entry does seem to suggest that he joined the KOYLI and became a Company commander at the same time... The M.C. award seems to counter this interpretation, however.

Also:

London Gazette 25-10-1919

Yorks. L.I.

Temp. C'apt. V. R. Chalk relinquishes his commission on completion of service, 9 Sept. ,1919, and retains the rank of Capt.

Lt. E. S. Parke, M.C., relinquishes the actg. rank of Capt. on ceasing to comd. a Co. 9 Sept. 1919.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/316...pplements/13117

Steve.

P.S. I assume that the M.C. action was in December 1917, not December 1916 ? Do you have the Gazette entries for this ?

[Robert Goodale]

Steve, thank you for all that information. You are quite right of course, the MC action was December 1917, not 1916. VR Chalk even gets a mention for that in Derek Clayton's book on 9th Koyli. And that is the frustrating part, there is plenty of great detail in that book about 9th Koyli exploits, say September-October 1917, but I don't know whether my grandfather was part of that or still with Duke of Wellington's 8th West Riding. Them's the breaks!

I have got a hard copy of the MC Gazette (1918), but if you can find the online link easily (I have not yet found out how all that works) I would be really greatful for the link.

Cheers, robg

[sotonmate]

RG

When you say "his service papers" do you mean those contained in WO339/34895 at Kew ? If not then the answer may well be therein.

Sotonmate

[27thBN]

RG

When you say "his service papers" do you mean those contained in WO339/34895 at Kew ? If not then the answer may well be therein.

Sotonmate

Is anybody going there in the near future would be very handy ? :rolleyes:(read i have a list as long as my arm for officers service records i need cash is available for car parking and other etc)

[Robert Goodale]

Sotonmate-mate!

It has been a couple of years since I got to the PRO, and don't have the ref. numbers at hand, but yes, I am pretty sure we are referring to the same documents. All it had in there were plenty of Medical Board reports for both his "bomb" wounds Havrincourt in May 1917 and Kemmell April 1918, and some crazy 1918 correspondence about what unit to send him back to, and whether he was actually out of hospital:

eg"....instructed to rejoin his unit-3rd West Riding" then "....OC 3rd West RidingRegt reports that under authority...... officer instructed to report to 14th Battn West Riding Regt on 14/8/18..." Yet all that gets mentioned in his medal papers are 9th KOYLI. I realise that the paperwork on the millions that passed through and passed away must have been stupendous!

Thanks everybody. It is just frustrating to be so close to a full picture of his service record.

When I was a young boy grandfather VR Chalk used to talk a lot about the war, he spoke often about Passchendaele, "The Dardenelles" etc (in Oz it is all Gallipoli). He used to talk about his exploits, and some of them seemed very far fetched, because he was quite a character. But now that the research is getting so much more accessible, so many of his stories (daring and/or ghastly) are proving to be true!

best wishes, robg

quote name='sotonmate' date='May 1 2010, 01:21 PM' post='1402390']

RG

When you say "his service papers" do you mean those contained in WO339/34895 at Kew ? If not then the answer may well be therein.

Sotonmate