Trying to date a photo

[tony paley]

I have a group photograph of the HQ personnel of 84 Heavy Artillery group/Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery that I would like to get a rough date of. I am fairly certain that the photo was taken in the summer of 1919 when the brigade was on the Rhine, there are Chestnut trees in full bloom in the background. All the men are wearing the ribbon of BWM, some have the 1914/15 star, my grandfather seems to have his BWM sown on after his Long Service and good conduct medal. No one has the ribbon of the Victory Medal displayed, and I would think that nearly all of these men would be entitled, I know Grandad got one. My question would be what would the earliest date for the BWM ribbon to be issued. clearly it seems it was issued before the VM. I know that it was, and is, fairly common for ribbons to be authorised sometime before the medal arrives.

Tony P

[27thBN]

Well i would say late 1919 the medals took quite a while to be produced and issued in late 1920 onwards.The 14 star ribbon was introduced to service uniforms in 1917 .The victory medal so i am led to believe was the last medal/ribbon to be designed issued just after the BWM that's the ribbon i am talking about.

MC

[tony paley]

Thanks for that 27th Bt. In the background the trees are in full leaf with quite large chestnuts which does suggest late summer early autumn so your information seems to confirm my original theory of the period. clearly the period between the wearing of the BWM ribbon and the issue of the victory ribbon.

Tony P

[NigelS]

It couldn't have been earlier than August '19 as The Times of Monday 4th August gives this:

The War Office announces that the British War Medal Riband may now be worn by all ranks who are entitled to the award of the medal, and that in each case a preliminary issue of two inches of the riband will be made. The total number, including both those who are serving and those who have been discharged or demobilized, who will be entitled to this preliminary issue, is approximately 8,000,000, so that the total length of the riband issued will be about 250 miles. It will be necessarily be a considerable time before the issue is completed.

The issue for that of the Victory Medal appeared on Wednesday 24th December, 1919:

An Army Council Instruction just issued states that a preliminary issue of the Victory Medal Riband will now be made officially to those entitled to the medal. The riband will be issued to personnel still serving by commanding officers and heads of department...

(The announcement of Victory Medal & a description of its riband had appeared on Tuesday September 2nd, 1919)

So the late Summer/ early Autumn scenario does appear to fit very well

NigelS

[Staffsyeoman]

I have a reference in a war diary from a unit in the expeditionary force to Russia in 1919 instructing that the ribbons of the war medal be put up by those entitled (I think at that stage the troops in Russia, who had not previously qualified, were not entitled to it as they would later be). Unfortunately away from home and notes. Will date it later.

[tony paley]

Thanks for all the information it seems to fit the circumstances surrounding this photograph.

Tony P