William Albert Brown #23387 RFA

[ldeutrom]

I've recently discovered some of my great-grandfather's military records and I would love for someone to help with with a couple of questions. His name was William Albert Brown, regiment # 22387 born 1/6/1885. he enlisted in Liverpool 1902 as a reserve in 3rd Battalion Loyal North Lancs Regiment RFA as a saddler before eventually seeing active duty in 1914.[/font] He was also with the 94th brigade in the Royal Field Artillery. While his battery changed from time-to-time, his brigade remained 94th and his records state that he was in France many times. Can anyone tell me more about this brigade? Also.. Thanks to the National Archives, I downloaded William's medal card. It showed:Corps: 4th Divisional Artillery Column Royal Field Artillery .. Regiment No: 23387. Rank: Driver... 608772 / 28378 95 He qualified for the 1914 medal, including clasp & rose, on 23/8/1914. Would this have been the Battle of Mons?

Part of a personal letter included in his records stated he remained with the 4th division until the 2nd battle of Ypres 'where I became a casualty with heart strain and shellshock (I think that's the word) and that was 7 June 1915.." He recovered and kept re-enlisting until 1920ish.

I would love more info re William's regiments / battles etc.

Lea

Melbourne Oz

[battiscombe]

He may well have been in infantry before RFA..Loyal N Lancs cannot be RFA (although there were Lancs Militia/Volunteer artillery in 1903 period). 4th DAC (so 4th Division) would have been at Le Cateau and the retreat .. and would be a likely posting for a reservist called up in 1914 (95% of men were reservists in the DACs I would guess) .. so having served 3 or 5 years regular previously and then contuining as a reservist for a 12 year total term ....................if he had been wounded he would probably have been reposted to a new unit afterwards (that was common) hence the move to 94th Brigade

david

I've recently discovered some of my great-grandfather's military records and I would love for someone to help with with a couple of questions. His name was William Albert Brown, regiment # 22387 born 1/6/1885. he enlisted in Liverpool 1902 as a reserve in 3rd Battalion Loyal North Lancs Regiment RFA as a saddler before eventually seeing active duty in 1914.[/font] He was also with the 94th brigade in the Royal Field Artillery. While his battery changed from time-to-time, his brigade remained 94th and his records state that he was in France many times. Can anyone tell me more about this brigade? Also.. Thanks to the National Archives, I downloaded William's medal card. It showed:Corps: 4th Divisional Artillery Column Royal Field Artillery .. Regiment No: 23387. Rank: Driver... 608772 / 28378 95 He qualified for the 1914 medal, including clasp & rose, on 23/8/1914. Would this have been the Battle of Mons?

Part of a personal letter included in his records stated he remained with the 4th division until the 2nd battle of Ypres 'where I became a casualty with heart strain and shellshock (I think that's the word) and that was 7 June 1915.." He recovered and kept re-enlisting until 1920ish.

I would love more info re William's regiments / battles etc.

Lea

Melbourne Oz

[sotonmate]

Lea

Welcome to the Forum !

94 Brigade RFA was with 21 Division,and they have a War Diary at the National Archives under WO95/2141,this runs from Sept 1915 to Apr 1919. Unfortunately it is not yet appear to be digital so you won't be able to download it.

You can get some idea of 21 Division's actions from this page in the Long Long Trail at top left of this page:

http://www.1914-1918.net/21div.htm

This has all the units serving in the Division and the actions involved in (94 Brigade RFA is shown in Roman numerals XCIV).

Sotonmate

[ldeutrom]

G'day from Melbourne

Many thanks to everyone who's offered info re my great-grandfather. This all helps me to form some sort of picture of the man as no one in thew family knew anything re his service other than he served.

According to his records, William was in France:

22/8/14 - 13/6/15 (296 days) - qualifying for the 1914 medal on 23/8/14.

23/7/15 - 17/2/18 (146days)

5/3/18 - 20/7/18 (138 days)

So it looks like he was in a few campaigns. How would I go about getting a copy of the diary?

and I will check them out on the Net. Which ones would fit these time frames? Le Cateau and Mons?

Warm regards

Lea

[sotonmate]

Lea

From the dates you have posted I would say that he was with 4 Div Amm Col from arrival in Aug 1914 to Jun 1915,the first dates you have posted. He seems to have been returned home then. 4 Div's history shows that the Amm Col missed Le Cateau because it was still en route from England,and didn't do Mons either. See this page for a few details for 4 Div:

http://www.1914-1918.net/4div.htm

There is a War Diary for them too,covering arrival in France in Aug 1914. It is under WO95/1468 and is not digital as yet,so you can't download it. There will be a high cost for it to be copied for you,I suspect. Leave this one to me for a couple of weeks.

When he returned to France it is hard to say whether he was again 4 Div or had been posted to 21 Div and 94 Bde RFA. If you could categorically say that his record shows 94 Bde from Jul 1915 then he may have been 21 Div for the rest of the war.

Sotonmate

[ldeutrom]

What a wonderful help you are! Sorry to be a pest with more questions but the military isn't my forte.

William's medal card states he qualified for the 1914 medal on 23/8/1914. Given that 4 Div Amm Col were still in transit to Le Cateau and they didn't participate at Mons, then where would William have likely been under fire / what arenas was he likely to be part of?

I made a quick list of his units from what records I do have:

Enlisted 1902. Was with the reserve depot 6 RFA. May 1902 3rd btn LN Lancs. Looks like he was a reservist for some time then the following:

7/8/14 - 32nd brigade RFA

25/9/15 - France - 94th brigade.

30/9/15 - France - B/94th brigade

3/10/15 -France - D/94th brigade

3/5/16 - France - 94th brigade

20/5/16 - France - B/97th brigade

17/2/17 - France - 94th brigade

24/2/18 - 94th brigade

22/7/18 - 13/94th brigade

17/9/18 - France - 94th brigade - wounded. I wonder where?

14/5/19 - battery 'B' 94 brigade RFA

20/5/19 - 94th brigade

Included in the records is part of letter stamped 13/10/1919 to William's superiors mentioning he was with 4DAC until the "second part of Ypres" then he fell casualty due heart strain and shellshock (that's what it looks like) and that was 7 June 1915. He was demobalised from B battery 94th brigade 21 division on 20/5/1919.

Hope this clarifies things

Kindest regards, Lea.

[sotonmate]

Lea

23 Aug 1914 is the date he landed at a Channel port in France. He still needed to get to the battle zones;there were a lot of movements going on at the same time, shifting men and equipment eastwards.

You will learn about where he was from the War Diary later,but the 4 Div page I sent will show them to be at the Battle of the Marne, and Aisne, 7-10 Sept,and Armentieres from 13 Oct to 2 Nov. The page shows 4 Div at Messines also,but this shows only infantry elements,though again the War Diary will show if they had any artillery support from their own RFA units.

So it seems that he was with RFA elements of 21 Division for the remainder of the war. I note that nearlty all are for 94 Brigade and only one for 97 Brigade,but this unit too was part of 21 Division.

From your post (No4) you seem to have missed a period of duty in France after Jul 1918,as evidently he returned there again after his second wounding. This date of 17 July 1918 fits with 21 Division's participation in the Battle of the Selle (17-25 Oct 1918).

Sotonmate

[ldeutrom]

Thank you so much for all your assistance. You have been a Godsend.

blessings

Lea

[sotonmate]

Lea

The War Diary (WO95/1468 - Aug 1914 to Jun 1915) is not very informative,and a jumble of small papers as they didn't have the standard War Diary pages for several months from the start in Aug 1914. Too many to photograph with the work I had to do on the day. A shuffle through them shows where they were operating and what they were doing,which was mostly a daily listing of what they were supplying to where (mostly distributing a stream of newly-arrived lorries to the surrounding units !). From Sept to Dec 1914 4 Div Amm Col were based at ERMENONVILLE (45kms) and DAMMARTIN (35kms) NNE of Paris,and at the end of the year at CORBEIL (I didn't track that down,it's not in my current Michelin map !).

At the end of 1914 the unit moved to the Ypres sector and from Jan to May 1915 operated out of METEREN (18kms W of YPRES),from mid-May to mid-June at PROVEN (16 kms NW of YPRES,finishing the month off at WATOU (7 kms W of POPERINGHE) where he must have had a terrible time as they have, and had,a brewery run by monks ! For these months also a daily listing of supply of the necessary to various units in the Division and to others in the vicinities shown. For the activity around the Ypres sector he would doubtless have had to enter in range of enemy artillery to supply our units so would have been a target,no shells supplied,no danger !

Sotonmate

[ldeutrom]

You are absolutely wonderful - thank you!

From knowing nothing, a picture is now forming of my great-granddad and his time in service.

From what records I have, I suspect he was chlorine gassed and was treated at the hospital at Rouen as that name is mentioned once or twice from what I can make out.

blessings

Lea