Military Mounted Police

[PhilB]

This is 4469 Sgt Harry Coverdale, MMP atd 16th Lancers. He appears to carry the standard cavalry sabre of WW1. Was this normal for MMP and would MMP officers carry the officer`s equivalent?

[gnr.ktrha]

Hello,

I think it's called an 1895 Troopers sword, issued to cavalry regiments and replaced by the 1908 Pattern sword.

Regards,

Stewart

[Patrick ODwyer]

DEar Phil

Stewart is right so it is a little unusual to see the sword in a 1914-1918 context. Was this photo taken a home? I would suspect the 1908 sword was used in France by all cavalry related arms. Officers swords did differ.

BTW - good to see you again Stewart - we never finished our correspondence!

[Ron Clifton]

Hello Phil

The Equipment Regs for 1914 say "swords, cavalry" for MMP, "1 per all ranks" without specifying the pattern. The latest in issue was the 1908 pattern which had a straight blade, whereas from the scabbard it looks more likely to be slightly curved and therefore probably the 1899 pattern. Unless my extract from the List of Changes is wrong, there wasn't an 1895 pattern.

Yes, officers's swords were different in that the hilts were more ornamental, but still basically the same swords as the men.

Ron

[PhilB]

What would the thinking be behind the issue of sabres to policemen? I assume he`d also carry a sidearm.

[Ron Clifton]

Yes, they carried pistols as well.

A sabre could be used for traffic control (clearer than a pointed finger, and signals couyld be given). It could also be used for crowd control (flat of blade, or pommel of hilt). And for cutting paths, or clearing blocked paths of bushes, high crops, fallen branches etc. Very little of that could be done with a pistol.

Plus providing smart escorts for visiting VIPs etc!

Ron

[steenie]

QUOTE (Phil_B @ Apr 22 2010, 01:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is 4469 Sgt Harry Coverdale, MMP atd 16th Lancers. He appears to carry the standard cavalry sabre of WW1. Was this normal for MMP and would MMP officers carry the officer`s equivalent?

His riding style is interesting as it is not standard to the British Cavalry. Besides the leg position, He is crossing the reins, instead of handling them in straight lines and is taking up full contact on both. Indeed, with the arrangement he is using he would find it impossible to cast off the bridoon rein onto his wedding finger. Nonetheless, he is riding in full christmas tree order along with the sword, as stated being the 1899 pattern. Maybe as MMP, they were still issued with the 99 especially as the 16th would have a whole shipload of them in stores. However there is even something odd about how he has stowed his kit. He seems to have, not only his waterproof ontop of his wallets but also his Great Coat which is normally stowed on the back of the cantle. I am also confused about the third strap to his hand and the odd alter rope set up,, indeed I am not sure it is an alter rope. Is he hanging on to it? and if so, why? The cloth under the saddle is not the standard saddle blanket but a saddle cloth, or so it would seem. It is far too deep to be a blanket, as they come up very short under the saddle if folded the regulation way. Maybe it isn't folded the regulation way as that is even more odd as the horse is up to weight and well covered. What can be said is, whatever it is, it hasn't been pulled up into the arch of the saddle. Another no no for mounted troops as this leads to sore backs. It is also of interest that the horse is showing signs of being sweated up. Note the sweat marks on flanks, hind quarters, under the eyes and along the rein lines. Yet, it is Winter, if the trees are anything to go by. However the horse has an old, long clip which may suggest early Spring to save the new coat? The overal image of this photo is one of being taken for the shot and not one of this MMP doing something. I believe this photo is not as straight forward as the content would first suggest.

Just a few observations and thoughts

[steenie]

Here is a photograph of one of mine, in correct order. In this photo the saddle is an officers saddle (based on the Staff Yeomanry and Colonial) and the sword is the 1912 (officers version of the 1908). I have an original photo somewhere showing the same layout. I will dig it out and post it as well

[steenie]

Here is the photo I was looking for, with the 1908 sword and the P1902 UP saddle with surcingle and even a fodder bag;

[PhilB]

Not being a horsey person, I can`t comment but it wouldn`t be a surprise if a WW1 soldier wasn`t accoutred perfectly as per the book!

[steenie]

QUOTE (Phil_B @ Jun 20 2010, 02:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not being a horsey person, I can`t comment but it wouldn`t be a surprise if a WW1 soldier wasn`t accoutred perfectly as per the book!

Phil, I totally agree with that one. It isn't what a soldier takes to war, but what he leaves in some hedge, but in this case I get the impression that this NCO is in barracks from the buildings behind, not at the Front. Nonetheless, my observations with regard to his horsemanship are based on the school taught by the British Cavalry. If he had been brought up in this school, such things like crossing reins would be so alien to him he wouldn't even be able to ride this way as his aids would be used differently. It is a bit like, if you were a trained military shot seeing a man handle a rifle with no training. You would know immediatley. However, crossing reins is common in civilian riding as it softens the hands when using a curb.

I know nothing of this Sgt, but let me wax lyrical for a few lines to put forward a possible scenario for him based on the photo:

Sgt Harry Coverdale is with the Military Police. As a country lad at home, he used to ride and adopted, as would be expected, a very rustic hunting seat. In the Army, when it was found he could ride, he was attached to the 16th Lancers although he himself had no Cavalry training. Indeed, as he did most of his duties on foot up to this attachment, he had no idea of how to tack up a la military. He may even have taken his own horse, as this mount seems not to have been regularily ridden in a PMR military bit as his neck is muscled up all wrong when using this bit properly day in day out, or was a remount that was passed onto him from the 16th for some reason or another. As he was MP, the 'Blue Mafia of the 16th, had no say in how he rode, nor would they have cared.

As I said, these are just observations and musings based on the photo.