eviltaxman Posted 23 May , 2004 Share Posted 23 May , 2004 Does anyone (Terry?) know the meaning behind the CWGC headstones that aren't of the usual design, but have "cut away" corners??? the top is like this....... _l```````l_ rather than than this....... l````````l The grave I've found is named to "J H Payne, Able Seaman, P/JX163742, RN, 2nd June 1940, Age 40". The headstone has the usual anchor & cross as is found on most RN stones. I can't find anything on the CWGC site for this chap and was wondering if is a non-standard type stone or not official. It is however, amongst 20 or so other official stones. Les. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyOfficer Posted 23 May , 2004 Share Posted 23 May , 2004 taxman: if you do a search you'll find a thread on this with pictures of example headstones. i was just reading it the other day; they aren't CWGC headstones but ones styled as such and the giveaway is the shape of the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eviltaxman Posted 23 May , 2004 Author Share Posted 23 May , 2004 ArmyOfficer........ that's what I thought (shape wise that is). I did do a quick search for previous postings, but my PC is playing up and crashing every so often, so can't do too much at a time. I thought it was not official, but the fact it's amongst official ones had me boggled I'm off to have another look...... Les. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eviltaxman Posted 23 May , 2004 Author Share Posted 23 May , 2004 Eureka... found it (wasn't too hard ). This is the link to the posting by Terry...headstones. The 3rd pic is the varient I've come across. DUH!!! Les. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 23 May , 2004 Share Posted 23 May , 2004 Les These headstones fool many people. That's why I posted my previous thread. You will also, very occasionally, come across a headstone exactly like a CWGC stone but with dates outside the war qualifing dates. However, these are copies made unofficially and without permission (often inadvertantly) by relatives. The ONLY official war grave style headstone ever supplied to a non-qualifying person by CWGC was to Sir Fabian Ware (their founder) in Amberley Church Cemetery, Glos. However, it is still not a war grave as he died outside the appropriate dates. Your example above of the seaman suggests that he was no longer in service at his death. The Non-World War style being used as he was an 'old sailor'. Had he still been serving he would have qualified for war grave status and the normal official headstone as he died in 1940. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 23 May , 2004 Share Posted 23 May , 2004 Terry Can I add this one from Haslar [with apologies for poor quality], which I believe is a war grave but with an Admiralty pattern stone? Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 23 May , 2004 Share Posted 23 May , 2004 Sue You are correct. The Admiralty used this style of headstone for many of its graves - both in Admiralty cemeteries and elsewhere. They can be War Graves or Non-World War Graves. The dates are the way to spot the Non-World Wars but occasionaly there may be a Non-World War (the 'old sailor') amongst the war dates. The only way to tell a true War Grave in these cases is reference to the CWGC database. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 23 May , 2004 Share Posted 23 May , 2004 Thanks for confirming that Terry. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly jack Posted 23 May , 2004 Share Posted 23 May , 2004 Hi Terry and Sue , I believe that particular one is a Dutch or Danish stone. I was in Haslar last week and it is one of about 2000 I am taking pictures of at the moment. You will note no Anchor on the engraving (for terry only, see I'm getting good at grave spotting!!) Jolly Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 23 May , 2004 Share Posted 23 May , 2004 Well Done, Steve. You are right. I didn't look at the badge. The style is indeed similar to the Admiralty style as Sue said but I think that is a Netherlands badge on the headstone - it is a very similar style and confusing if you don't look properly (said to self!). Sue Where was this grave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 23 May , 2004 Share Posted 23 May , 2004 Can I add this one from Haslar ... Sue scratches her head and thinks carefully about this one, reading the entire thread through three times before deciding either this must be a trick question, or else she has reached her dotage at least a year before her time... Terry, Did you mean which plot? Which number grave? Under which tree? [Apologies in advance] Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 23 May , 2004 Share Posted 23 May , 2004 Sue, sorry... Which cemetery would do. Just to confirm Steve's (Jolly Jack) identification, below is a Netherlands War Grave headstone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 24 May , 2004 Share Posted 24 May , 2004 Just to clear up any confusion, my photo was taken at the Royal Naval Cemetery, Haslar, Hampshire - a little blown-up snippet of a large shot. An extremely interesting cemetery to visit for the large range of different headstones and memorials it contains. Jack - I'm glad I now know that the stone was Dutch, as it never even occurred to me it was anything different to an Admiralty stone. I visited the cemetery as I have a local man buried there - he has a WW1 war grave with yet another style of Admiralty stone. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 24 May , 2004 Share Posted 24 May , 2004 Good picture, Sue. It should be added that the Admiralty have used several different styles of 'standard' headstone over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly jack Posted 24 May , 2004 Share Posted 24 May , 2004 Well done for getting one of them, I have to get the other 500 odd. Don't want to give a hand do you?? You may have noticed that this is one of the cleaner ones. I was talking to Derek the groundsmen and apparently the CWGC turned up a while back and straightened all the concrete and Brass plaque ones (like yours) cleaned them up and left the rest Pre WW1. You will probably have noticed the state of these ones. Fortunately they don't come under the BWMP remit however the post 1920's do and these are in much the same state. You're not Sue Gibbs by any chance are you?? Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 24 May , 2004 Share Posted 24 May , 2004 You're not Sue Gibbs by any chance are you?? Jack [? Steve] - [is this thread turning into a forum Whitehall farce?] No, I'm Sue Light, although I'm sure Sue Gibbs is a lovely person! I'd be out with the camera like a shot if I lived nearer - I think Haslar is probably the most interesting military cemetery I've visited. It's a real snapshot of naval history with it's great variety of graves and memorials, and because it's proximity to the hospital makes it the burial place of lots of old sailors, it brought home the fact that men were dying for their country long before the period this forum concentrates on. I hadn't left myself enough time there [or enough food and water], and intend to go back soon. This photo picks up some of those less than perfect stones - and the following one is of the Turkish plot within the cemetery. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 24 May , 2004 Share Posted 24 May , 2004 The Turkish Plot [but cheating really, as it's not WW1] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eviltaxman Posted 24 May , 2004 Author Share Posted 24 May , 2004 Sue, I think I might need to apologise for all the headaches..... Les. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 24 May , 2004 Share Posted 24 May , 2004 Les Don't even think of an apology - despite my many previous condemnations of the forum 'rank' system, this thread has just resulted in my promotion! Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDick Posted 24 May , 2004 Share Posted 24 May , 2004 Talking of Haslar and all that: I'm from Gosport and have long since known that Gosport is known as 'Turk Town' and its inhabitants as 'Turks', but I have not yet heard convincingly why this is so. I assume that Turkish prisoners or a large influx of Turkish workers lived here? I'd be grateful for any confirmation. Richard PS: Have you heard about Haslar Cemetery's 'ghost'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QMan9193 Posted 25 May , 2004 Share Posted 25 May , 2004 The Cemetery is very good and full of history. As my signature shows my Great Uncle is buried there after dying of cancer in 1914. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly jack Posted 25 May , 2004 Share Posted 25 May , 2004 QMan AB Cracknell is on my list to get, if I have not already got him (about 300 images to name). If you need a copy of the photo I'd be pleased to forward if you let me know your home e mail. Have not sussd out how to put them on this forum at the moment. (perhaps I should as I might get promotion like Sue!) Dirty Dick (Richard) Put 'Haslar cemetery' in a search engine and one of the sites gives a good dit about how the name Turk Town originated. Something to do with the graves that Sue has photgraphed. Jolly Jack (Steve) still a mere corporal!! (converted to Leading hand in the Senior Service!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QMan9193 Posted 26 May , 2004 Share Posted 26 May , 2004 Thanks very much for the offer, but I live locally and fortunatly see him regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEG Posted 30 May , 2004 Share Posted 30 May , 2004 Terry, I am fascinated by the above comments about Admiralty headstones at Haslar and I wonder if the Army ever had similar 'standard' patterns for soldier's headstones before the Great War? Janet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now