Thomas McHattie WW1 service details please

[KevinBattle]

On a WW2 forum, I have been lucky enough to be able to help a poster enquiring about her relative

This is he, a Police Constable aged 44 with an MM award.

As he was killed fairly early in the Blitz, it occurred to me that his MM was probably awarded for his WW1 service, being 18 or so in 1914.

Is it possible for anyone to fill in any WW1 Service details? I don't think there is much known by the original poster, so it's really what you see is what you've got!!

From the Met Police Roll of Honour he died from a "shell explosion" while on duty in Shoreditch... sounds like a dud AA shell exploding when it landed, but.........? Obviously if you whizzes can come up with more, then I'll be delighted for her.

Name: McHATTIE, THOMAS

Initials: T

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Civilian

Regiment/Service: Civilian War Dead

Age: 44

Date of Death: 17/10/1940

Awards: M M

Additional information: Police Constable. Husband of Susannah Maud McHattie, of 108 Evelyn Court, Amhurst Road, Hackney, London. Injured at Shoreditch, London; died at Chase Farm Hospital.

Casualty Type: Civilian War Dead

Reporting Authority: ENFIELD, URBAN DISTRICT

Whilst I can understand that he may have been moved to Chase Farm Hospital after sustaining his injuries some time before 17th October, the one other useful (?) piece of information is that he had a brother in Enfield

In a desperate attempt to assuage the wrath of the Mods, I therefore plead that this WW1 casualty MAY be related...

Is this man related, too?

Name: McHATTIE, JAMES WILLIAM

Initials: J W

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Lieutenant

Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force

Unit Text: 20th Sqdn.

Secondary Regiment: York and Lancaster Regiment

Secondary Unit Text: and

Age: 25

Date of Death: 25/04/1918

Additional information: Son of James and Maggie McHattie, of 34, Main Avenue, Bush Hill Park, Enfield, Middx.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: V. A. 72.

Cemetery: LONGUENESSE (ST. OMER) SOUVENIR CEMETERY

Any additional info on him would be a bonus, IF he is related.

With 6 McHattie casualties in both Wars, the likelihood is that he served in a Scottish Regiment (bright, aren't 1) but having sown these few clues, what can you find for me please?

[Verrico2009]

Well, this little family were living at 36 Main Crescent, Enfield in 1901:-

John McHattie 40

Maggie McHattie 33

Christina McHattie 10

James McHattie 8

Emily McHattie 4

Margorie McHattie 2

So possibly your man isn't immediately related.

Edited to add: I'm having no joy finding Thomas on either the 1901 or 1911 census.

[KevinBattle]

Louise, very much appreciate your finds!

As I guessed, he served in a Scottish Regiment - the Seaforth Highlanders as a Corporal. He may therefore be in Scotland in 1901 and 1911, if that "helps"....

Doh! I should have used the Search button - I now have and still can't use it - I'm on Standard view but not according to the button!

Stuart Farrell enquired in Oct 2008

Dear All

Researching local War memorial, now onto men from WW2 a number of which served in WW1.

Have the following person from the CWGC database

Name: McHATTIE, THOMAS

Initials: T

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Civilian

Regiment/Service: Civilian War Dead

Age: 44

Date of Death: 17/10/1940

Awards: M M

Additional information: Police Constable. Husband of Susannah Maud McHattie, of 108 Evelyn Court, Amhurst Road, Hackney, London. Injured at Shoreditch, London; died at Chase Farm Hospital.

I found his medal card on Ancestry - Cpl in Seaforths, awarded 1914 Star, BWM and VM, but here comes the question - if I am reading the above CWGC entry correct he was awarded Miltary Medal? But cannot find it in London Gazette. Is it possible above is wrong?

Any held much appreciated.

Stuart

HarryBettsMCDCM

Oct 26 2008, 09:17 PM

He doesn't appear to have an "MM" *Index Card on the NA site & there are no apparent "McHattie" MMs between 1916 & 1940 {In case he had served in India etc post WW1 & earned one there}

*or other Gallantry awards for that matter.

Could be his "MM" was due to Family confusion in the 1940s??when details where given to the CWGC.

sfarrell

Oct 27 2008, 09:10 AM

From his medal card he was in the police in 1921 and still serving in them when he was killed in WW2. Still got a few newspapers I could check, maybe I will have to contact police museum?

Stuart

So, I'll PM Stuart to see if he has more, meantime any more info appreciated! Much more fun than the quiz!!

[eltoro1960]

Fair bet this him, an Old Contemptable

Pte / Cpl 1134 2nd Battalon Seaforth Highlanders, went to France 23rd August,1914. His name was on a roll of Police Constable entitled to medals submitted by the Chief of the Metropolitan Police in 1921.

I couldn't find his MM as of yet, but the LG was never my strongpoint.

John

Edit - you snooze you lose here

[johnny_doyle]

2 public trees on Ancestry have your man, born 5th Feb 1896 Feddon, Dyke, Moray, Scotland, son of Alexander McHattie and Isobel (Isabella) McLeod. Married to Maud Susannah Martin. No reference to WW1 or MM.

[Verrico2009]

If you still want to tie him into a James, there is one in the Seaforths:-

Name: James McHattie

Regiment or Corps: Seaforth Highlanders

Regimental Number: 266434

But I think you've got your link to WW1 anyway!

[KevinBattle]

i have now stumbled upon my source on Rootschat divulging clearer details...... Thomas McHattie

Apparently this chap is Thomas's brother...

Name: McHATTIE, KENNETH

Initials: K

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Corporal

Regiment/Service: Cameron Highlanders

Unit Text: 2nd Bn.

Age: 20

Date of Death: 10/05/1915

Service No: 8759

Additional information: Son of Alexander and Isabella McHattie, of Moss Side, Nairn.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 38 and 40.

Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL

It's also where Staurt Farrell has an interest.... I can now make the connection to his earlier thread!

[johnny_doyle]

both Thomas and Kenneth appear on the Nairn War Memorial

http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=2760

[KevinBattle]

Thanks, John, johnny and Louise, your information was very helpful. Hope I can return the favour!

[KevinBattle]

Brief update: I have now heard back from my contact and she is convinced we have found our man!

So her many thanks to you all is being passed on here!!

Rather sad story and more on him at Rootschat, I believe

[stuart714]

Re Kenneth McHattie

These obits were in the local Nairn papers:

Soldiers Died in the Great War have him recorded as born Grange, Moray; enlisted Inverness and resident in Dunphail, Moray. Rank given as Acting Corporal.

Obituary in Nairn County Press and Advertiser of 12th June 1915 of the following:

‘Lnc Cpl McHattie Killed – Intimation has also been received by Mr McHattie, farm servant, Hilton of Delnies, that his son, Lance-Corpl Kenneth MacHattie, 2nd Camerons, has been killed.’

Obituary in the Nairnshire Telegraph of 15th June 1915 records the following:

‘Private Iles and Lance-Corporal McHattie Killed – Private Harold Iles, 2nd Seaforths, Son of Mr Isles, Easterton, Auldearn, has been killed in action. Lance-Corporal Kenneth McHattie, 2nd Camerons, son of Mr McHattie, Hilton of Delnies, Nairn, has also been killed in action. Both were young men who have had several years service in the Army, and were well known in Auldearn, having previously resided there.’

S Farrell

[KevinBattle]

Stuart: Thanks for all what you have done on this....

Do you want to post up the info you sent me on Thomas to round off the thread?

[stuart714]

Kevin, why not!

Re Thomas McHattie, this is what I have found for him re WW2 per Nairn War Memorial, he had served in WW1.

Police Constable Thomas McHattie M.M

Date of death – 17th October 1940

Service – Metropolitan Police

Service no. – n/a

Place of burial – Enfield, Middlesex.

Aged 44 at date of death. Husband of Susannah Maud McHattie, of 108 Evelyn Court, Amhurst Road, Hackney, London. Injured at Shoreditch, London; died at Chase Farm Hospital.

CWGC has under awards M.M for Military Medal but a search of the London Gazette revealed no announcement of his award of this medal. An enquiry to the CWGC revealed that the above information was submitted by Enfield Council and that a check of their Civilian Role Books does note him being awarded the Military Medal. There is also no indication of it being awarded on his Medal Card from WW1 held in the National Archives at Kew, though it is possible that a separate card, now lost, noted award. His service record has also not survived. (He had been in the 2nd Seaforth Highlanders, service no.1134, rank of Corporal, and was awarded 1914 Star, British War and Victory Medals).

Reported in the Nairnshire Telegraph of 29th October 1940 of the following:

‘Nairn Police Officer Dies From Shrapnel Wounds – Noted London Marksman and 1914-18 War Veteran – The death occurred on October 18 as the result of shrapnel wounds received on duty as a police officer of the Metropolitan G Division, London, of Mr Thomas MacHattie, of 11 Damers Road, Dorchester, Dorset, formerly of 26 Union Street, Nairn, and the late Mr I A MacHattie.

The late Mr MacHattie, who was 44 years of age, was born at Feddan, near Brodie, Nairnshire. He joined the Army at the age of 16, and served throughout the Great War with the Seaforth Highlanders. After leaving the Army, he joined the Metropolitan Police, with whom he had 22 years service.

His main hobby was small bore rifle shooting, and he was a regular representative for his division in the S.M.R.C League and at their Bisley meetings. About five years ago he won the News of the World championship cup at Bisley.

A few years ago he conducted a team of Metropolitan Police riflemen on a tour of Scotland, among the places visited being Nairn.

The deepest sympathy will be extended to his wife and daughter.’

Reported in The Northern Scot and Moray & Nairn Express of 2nd November 1940 of the following:

‘Police Officers Death – Mr Thomas McHattie, fourth son of Mrs I McHattie, of 11 Damers Road, Dorchester, Dorset, formerly of 26 Union Street, Nairn, and the late Mr I A McHattie, has died as the result of shrapnel wounds received on duty as a police officer of a metropolitan division in London. Mr MacHattie, who was 44 years of age, was born at Feddan, near Brodie, Nairnshire. He joined the army at aged 16, and served throughout the Great War with the Seaforth Highlanders. After leaving the army, he joined the Metropolitan Police, with whom he had 22 years service.’

Stuart

PS Have published book on Nairn war memorial from WW1, work for men for WW2 is completed but awaiting permission to print a private diary.