Pte John Hunt - 1/East Yorks 7355

[auditman]

Hi All

This chap joined the E/Yorks in 1903 and was remustered upon the outbreak of war. His service papers from Ancestry have a couple of interesting points that I can't work out.

Question 1

His family believe he earned a DCM and Nick has kindly looked up his citations for the EY and the DLI, his earlier service, with no success. On his Casualty Form form there is a note 24/8/15 "Received card for Distinguised Conduct, authority GOC 6th Division of 19/8/15". Can someone clarify this please? I sthis a form of MID?

Question 2

The Casualty Form also states 19/2/16, "Joined Base details from Battalion for Discharge" and 20/2/1916 "Transferred for Discharge Time expired to England". Would this be normal given the date? There did seem to be a few disciplinary issues - could this be the reason if perhaps linked to health (speculation on my part)?

Many thanks

Jim

[KevinBattle]

I think there has recently been discussion about a similar time expired chap. if yours enlisted in 1903, he probably took a year or so in the UK for training and then was sent abroad, probably India, in say 1904. Enlistment was for 12 years, 5 with the Colours in Service and 7 in Reserve.

As an already trained soldier in August 1914 he may have been early entrant into France.

Question 1: A DCM is a fairly prestigious award, the Distinguished Conduct Medal. Other Pals will tell you more about its significance, but it wasn't freely handed out! A Mention in Dispatches is a way of recognising particularly noteworthy achievements by the soldier, but is not a medal (The French Croix de Guerre is sometimes regarded as the equivalent of a British "Mention in Dispatches"). It is possible that over the course of almost 100 years the MiD has transmuted into a DCM.

Question 2: It may be that in August 1915 his 12 years service time was up, so (especially if he was showing signs of poor health, perhaps from service overseas) he may have been sent back to the Regiments Base Depot for discharge, which may have taken until Feb 16 to resolve whether to take him back for active service or not. A fully trained and fit soldier would have been wanted by the Army at that stage, so for him NOT to carry on even in some Reserve capacity would support your hunch about sickness being a factor.

The disciplinary issues would account for him still being a private amongst fairly raw recruits.... Sounds like he was brave but foolhardy!

This is all speculation, so wait for real experts to come along and tell you what tosh I've put forward!!

[roughdiamond]

To add to question 2, part of the 12 year "Short Service" attestation form, Para 17 (d) stated to paraphrase "if a soldiers 12 years ended while a state of war existed with a foreign power, they could be held for a further period of service not to exceed 12 months", hence the 13 years service and discharge in 1916.

You should see it on his attestation paper if it's part of his pension records.

Sam

[joseph]

Hi,

He received a card for Distinguished Conduct, this is not a gallantry award but a Divisional congratulation for good work, he received it on Saturday 14th August for the action on the 9th August 1915 at Hooge.

As Kevin says his time of 7 Army 5 reserve was up and he opted for discharge, may not have lasted long as he could have been conscripted again.

This is the Commanding Officers account of the 8/9th August 1915.

As may be imagined, the night of the 8th-9th August was spent in a state of extreme tension, and not much sleep was obtainable before our Artillery opened their bombardment, before it was yet dawn. The thunder of the guns was simply terrific, and it seemed as if hell itself had been let loose. The Germans were not long in responding, and the whole area soon became a veritable inferno, the faint glimmering of dawn lit up by the ever constant gun flashes and the continuous flare of the rockets and light signals sent up by the bewildered Germans. The Durham’s and Sherwood’s dashed forward to the assault at the appointed moment; three bombing parties of ours, under Lieut. Huntriss, accompanied them, and the objective was very soon reached, except on the right flank of the attack, where strongly posted and cleverly sited German machine guns defied all efforts of the attackers, and literally wiped them practically all out. There was an old communication trench called the "Strand." which led up to about the centre of the objective, and at about 50 yards short of it branched into two short lengths. I received a message, with rough sketch, from Lieut. Huntriss, showing he had reached this fork in the "Strand" trench, with his bombers close behind the Infantry. He reported all was going well so far. Soon after receiving this, I got an order from Brigade Headquarters to reinforce the attacking troops with one Company. Accordingly I sent orders to Lieut. Brindley, M.C., and Commanding C. Coy., to take his Company up from the eastern edge of Zouave Wood, and reinforce the Durham L.I., who had reached the Hooge Crater and Ridge, but had had heavy casualties, mainly from shell fire. So mad keen were our men to get to grips with the Huns, that when C. Coy., most gallantly led by Brindley at their head, advanced, some of A. and B. Coys went forward also, (without orders). Eventually I received reports that our troops in the captured positions were much too overcrowded, and the "Strand" communication was getting blocked with the reinforcements passing up and wounded men trying to get back. I therefore sent orders for men of the Battalion to filter back to their trenches, and by 9.30 a.m. this was practically completed, but in the meanwhile C. Coy. had suffered severely. The gallant Brindley had been severely wounded in no less than five places, Sergeant. Frost and many others had been killed; the former managed to get conveyed back to a dressing station in sanctuary Wood, whence he, with the other wounded, were evacuated after dark.

The German shell fire throughout the latter part of the attack had been extremely violent, and accounted for most of the casualties, and we were now subjected to a continuous bombardment with every kind of projectile, and from every direction, lasting well into the night. The greatest gallantry had been displayed by all ranks of the Battalion, while the pluck and endurance of the signal linesmen and Battalion and Company runners was simply magnificent. Time and again the former went out to repair the telephone wires, while the latter kept me in touch with the situation, and how the Companies were faring all day. Capt. de la Fontaine, commanding D Coy., in reserve, acted also as second in Command, and brought me personal reports, running the gauntlet of a hail of shells in the comparatively short distance between the reserve trenches and Redoubt R. A party of 19 unwounded German prisoners were brought in to Battalion Headquarters by an escort of D. Coy., about 10 a.m. They belonged to the 126th Württemberg Regiment, were a fine lot of men, their uniform and under clothing being remarkably clean. After a cursory examination and search, I sent them on under escort to Brigade Headquarters, in Maple Copse. A congratulatory message was received from the 6th Division at about 10.30 a.m., and for the rest of the day we hung on to our new position, as well as the line we started from. How our Battalion Headquarters did not get a direct hit was a perfect marvel, as the shells burst all round, and were passing just overhead the whole time.

At 8.30 p.m. a welcome message announced that the West York’s were detailed to relieve us during the night, while the Queen's Westminster's were to take over the battle line from the Durham's and Slier-woods. Soon after 10 p.m. Major Lang and the West Yorkshire's arrived, and by 11.30 p.m. we commenced the march back to Ypres by platoons, the Companies collecting in the neighbourhood of Zillebeke. Fortunately, by this time the 15 hours bombardment I was over and only fitful shelling was going on, as we filtered back in small parties. The wounded were all got away, as soon as it was dark in motor ambulances, from Yeomanry Post. Our casualties had been heavy, as was to be expected, but might have been worse and I shall never forgot my feelings as I marched back in the fine starlit summer night, with Willis and our handful of signallers, etc., the last party to leave the scene of the battle. The relief from the tension and from the unceasing din and screaming of the shells was immense, and the survivors were full of elation and victory. We reached the Ramparts at Ypres about 1.30 a.m. all our officers were accommodated in a large case-mate in the massive walls, where some mattresses afforded rest to weary bodies, while the men were billeted in the ground floor rooms and cellars of the ruined houses near by. Before turning in I went to the 6th Division Headquarters in another casemate close to ours, where I found Gen. Congreve and Col. Gerald Boyd, of the General Staff, and reported the events of the day as far as my Battalion was concerned. They kindly regaled me with a large whiskey and soda and a huge slice of cake, while the General expressed his satisfaction at the result of the attack and the fine conduct of the Battalion during its awful ordeal.

On collecting reports next morning, it was found that our actual casualties were 7 officers wounded (Lieuts. Brindley, Reynard, Stamp, Fosdick, Murray, Bain and Stacpole), 18 men killed, 97 wounded, and 67 missing. Naturally, the casualties of the Sherwood's and Durham's were very much higher, especially in killed, while of our missing a good many were accounted for during the next few days as having passed through other dressing stations, etc., but the remainder, of whose number I have no record, that could not be traced must be added to the number of the fallen. All day on the 10th we rested in the Ramparts, and then towards dusk, at 8.15 p.m., started to march to Poperinghe, reaching our billets in three hours. The men were in great fettle, and" the highest of spirits, singing songs most of the way along the familiar old high road through Vlamertinghe. Many yarns were afoot as to incidents of note in the recent battle, such as the spectacle of the dare-devil Sergt. Nolan, of the Battalion. Bombers, chasing a Hun round the traverses of the "Strand" flourishing his "Knob-Kerrie" (a heavily weighted truncheon, with iron ball and spikes at its extremity), and finally divesting his victim of rather a fine under-vest, and putting it on himself, all under the heaviest of shell fire.

The Battalion now got a week's well-earned rest in billets, but there was work enough to be done in refitting and equipping, and absorbing drafts amounting to 2 officers and 170 other ranks, which nearly made good our losses, except in officers.

Regards Charles

[auditman]

Thank you very much

Jim