James & Harry Collis 1/5th East Surreys (part 1)

[jmta04]

Hi everybody.

This is my first post, so I am starting gently. I have checked the LLT, & am also lucky enough to have found James Collis' service record, so have the basic information, but would like any more details.

James joined the 1/5th East Surreys, a territorial battalion, on 9th Nov 1910. His brother Harry was also in the same battalion & I assume that they joined at the same time, although this IS an assumption. Until mobilised in August 1914, what would they have done (i.e. where would the battalion have met, how often, what would their training or duties have involved)? It is possible that other brother(s) may have been in the same battalion. James received the Territorial Efficiency Medal. Was this award automatic, did he have to do something to earn it, or did he just have to keep his nose clean to merit it. Would it have been awarded during his service as a territorial, or at the end of his military service?

Mobilised in Wimbledon in August 1914, moved to somewhere in Kent, embarked at Southampton 29th October, landed at Bombay 2nd December 1914. Are there any details available regarding these movements?

On arrival in Bombay, the battalion became part of the Allahabad brigade 8th (Lucknow) Division until August 1915. Is there any information about this stage of their service?

In August 1915, the battalion was moved to the Nowshera brigade 1st (Peshawar) Division, but by this time the brothers military career had changed dramatically (this will be my next post, part 2).

I realise any reference to the brothers themselves is unlikely, but any photographs, documents, etc, relevant to the battalion during this period of service will be gratefuly received.

Many thanks for looking,

Scobie

[CT-Guards]

Scobie,

Welcome to the board, waiting for part II the more info we have the more chance you have of getting all your questions answered!

Regards

[sotonmate]

S

I found a medal card for James (two service numbers 1099 and 25671) but nothing for Harry,so it seems as if he didn't enter a war theatre,unless he has a touch of the James's and had an incorrect Christian name as well !

James date of landing into a war theatre shown as 28.8.1915 is for Asia (code 5 and it shows A also),so this ties in with his move to the Peshawar Division,but quite where they were you will doubtless tell us in part II !

I think James's TEM was granted for length of service. The medal card shows a date of 1920 for it's issue,and you say he joined in 1910. 12 years was the period needed to be entitled to it,but war service counted double.

Sotonmate

[jmta04]

Hi there.

There is a medal card for Harry under the name of 'Henry' and on which he is shown as entering the same theatre of war as James on the same date. However, it does not show him as being awarded the TEM, so perhaps he enlisted later than James. The information regarding the TEM was most illuminating. I find it difficult to decipher what the medal cards try to tell us, so thanks for that.

I have a photograph taken by a Cawnpore photographer whilst James was with the 8th (Lucknow) Division. Does this mean that the battalion was stationed at Cawnpore? What other regiments would have made up this Division at that time?

I am hopeful that there may be some more information yet to come (joining up the dots, as it were) before moving on.

Regards,

Scobie

[Verrico2009]

Hi Scobie - are these the papers you found:-

Name: James Collis

Estimated birth year: abt 1885

Age at Enlistment: 17

Birth Parish: Shepherdsbus??

Birth County: Lon??

Document Year: 1902

Number of Images: 21

I can confirm that his number was actually 1090 but it's been crossed out and 25671 has been written in (25672 in one instance). The front page is very faint but does appear to be dated 1902.

[kenf48]

The Territorial Force was a volunteer force formed in 1908 as a result of the Territorial and Reserve Forces Act 1907. It was envisaged it would be responsible for Home Defence and each Territorial Battalion was attached to a Regular Regiment. They would be required to attend regular parades or 'drills' and this Bn was based at the Drill Hall in St Georges Road Wimbledon see also http://www.britishmilitaryhistory.co.uk/aq...20(1930-38).pdf

As well as parade drill there would probably be indoor ranges and physical exercises etc. A google search will bring up accounts of the formation of the TF and how they were 'embodied' when war was declared.

The Act required them to attend an annual training camp of at least eight and up to fifteen days a year. For young men it was very popular and the annual camp eagerly anticipated and mentioned in quite a few memoirs. A search on the forum will give you much more information on Drill Halls and the Territorial Force.

Finally the qualification for the Territorial Force medal is on the LLT here http://www.1914-1918.net/grandad/themedals.htm with a pic here

http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/britishgu..._medal_1914.htm

Ken

[kenf48]

quick edit

Wimbledon Drill Hall

http://www.drillhalls.org/Counties/Surrey/TownWimbledon.htm

Ken

[jmta04]

Hello again.

Thanks for the response thus far. Most helpful.

In reply to the points raised, firstly, that IS James service record, although he was born in Shepherds Bush in 1895, not 1885 as it states, and he enlisted in November 1910, just short of his sixteenth birthday. Subsequent pages in his service record confirm his date of enlistment.

Secondly, thanks for the guidance to finding sources of information regarding the formation of the Territorials. How unfortunate that there does not seem to be a photograph of the Wimbledon Drill Hall available.

Thirdly, the medal shown is not the same as the one James received. James' medal is the Territorial Efficiency Medal as opposed to the Territorial Force War Medal (which, I must admit, I did not know existed). But as far as I can tell, it appears that the qualification for either medal was the same.

Regards to you all,

Scobie