George Stephens 17th Battalion Cheshire Regiment

[sallyann]

Can anyone help provide further information about the medal card of my g grandfather George Stephens?

All I know is that he was in 17th battalion Cheshire regiment as a groom/ gardener in 1917 (I got this information from my g grandmother's death certificate who died of TB in 1917). Then his medal card says he was Private 46707 in Cheshire regiment and 110101 Labour Corp. The roll details are LC/101 B66 Page 6695. Does anyone know if this regiment ever served abroad? Where were they stationed? Why would my g grandfather have joined this regiment when he lived in Breconshire?

[John_Hartley]

If he has a medal card, then he served abroad. If you click the link to the Long Long Trail (top left of the page) you should be able to find brief details of the 17th battalion's war history (and lots more information about how to research a soldier). The service number suggests he enlisted around 1916 - which will generally mean that he had no choice as to which unit he was assigned to.

[The Inspector]

Hi Sallyann

Welcome to the forum, what was his date of birth and occupation in civvy street.

Regards Barry

[sallyann]

Hi Sallyann

Welcome to the forum, what was his date of birth and occupation in civvy street.

Regards Barry

I don't know his date of birth, only that he was aged 23 at the time of his marriage in 1911 i.e. born around 1888, but I have not been able to verify this. He was basically a farm labourer - on 1911 census he is a waggoner, so assume he had something to do with cart horses, hence being a groom/gardener in the war. We don't actually know what happened to him after the war, though we are pretty sure he did not die. His wife died of TB in 1917 and he did not return to look after his 3 daughters, they were brought up by their maternal grandmother.

[sallyann]

If he has a medal card, then he served abroad. If you click the link to the Long Long Trail (top left of the page) you should be able to find brief details of the 17th battalion's war history (and lots more information about how to research a soldier). The service number suggests he enlisted around 1916 - which will generally mean that he had no choice as to which unit he was assigned to.

Thanks - I checked it out. It's a bit confusing as I'm not sure if he would have been amalgamated into the 53rd (Young Soldier) Battalion with the rest of 17th Cheshire, or if in the Labour Corp he would have gone somewhere completely different. Were the Labour Corps attached to battalions? Or separate battalions in their own right? I'm guessing that as he was an experienced handler of horses and waggons in civvy life he would have done something similar in the war - I hadn't realised how many horses and waggons were involved in the war.

I have not been able to find any more about his war record, and assume his records were burnt/ damaged in the 1940 fire, so I don't know where else to check. Any ideas?

Thanks again

[John_Hartley]

Without a service file, we have to do a bit of speculation, I'm afraid.

17/Cheshire was a reserve unit which didnt leave Britain so, unless there was some unknown intervening fighting unit, the guess has to be that his overseas service was with the Labour Corps. The Corps was formed in 1917 and undertake non-combat, erm, labouring duties behind the front line. The men were, almost invariably, those not sufficiently fit for front line combat. One of the Forum's members, Ivor Lee, has particular knowledge of the Corps and I've had a look at his book "No Labour, No Battle". It suggests that his service number is consistent with him transferring to the Corps in may 1917 and being assigned to 184th Company. At point, I'm afraid, I hit a brick wall. Few records survive of the activities of individual Companies.

[sallyann]

Without a service file, we have to do a bit of speculation, I'm afraid.

17/Cheshire was a reserve unit which didnt leave Britain so, unless there was some unknown intervening fighting unit, the guess has to be that his overseas service was with the Labour Corps. The Corps was formed in 1917 and undertake non-combat, erm, labouring duties behind the front line. The men were, almost invariably, those not sufficiently fit for front line combat. One of the Forum's members, Ivor Lee, has particular knowledge of the Corps and I've had a look at his book "No Labour, No Battle". It suggests that his service number is consistent with him transferring to the Corps in may 1917 and being assigned to 184th Company. At point, I'm afraid, I hit a brick wall. Few records survive of the activities of individual Companies.

Thanks for that - it is more information than I had anyway. I think it funny that being short seemed to be a reason not to be fit for front line battle - might have been an advantage in the trenches I'd have thought.

[John_Hartley]

I think it funny that being short seemed to be a reason not to be fit for front line battle

Absolutely wasnt. And, indeed the 15th & 16th Cheshires were both formed entirely by men under 5' 3" - the original regulation height for the army. Both "Bantam " units saw active service almost throughout the war - although they stopped being an entirely "short man's unit" towards the end of 1916.

If George was short and found himself in the Labour Corps it is almost certain that there were other physical or health issues.

[sallyann]

Absolutely wasnt. And, indeed the 15th & 16th Cheshires were both formed entirely by men under 5' 3" - the original regulation height for the army. Both "Bantam " units saw active service almost throughout the war - although they stopped being an entirely "short man's unit" towards the end of 1916.

If George was short and found himself in the Labour Corps it is almost certain that there were other physical or health issues.

That's interesting - I wonder what it was - haven't come across anything - apart from his wife and (possibly mother) dying from TB? Assumed he was pretty fit working as a farm labourer. But then I don't know a lot about him really. Thanks for all this info, it gives a lot of context at least as I am lacking hard facts about him at the moment. I'm desperate to get a discharge address but without his papers am really stuck. Thanks.

P. S. did you see my other enquiry about Walter Gray in Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders & RS Fus (?) - though he was an East Ender - we know he saw plenty of action and I am still wondering if I should scan the letter and send it to LLT.